Drinking, driving and flying
Along time ago...
....a Canadian flight surgeon accompanied an Argus crew on one of their circumambulations of all the maritime bases around the North Atlantic. His considered opinion at the end of three weeks was; "40oz of Bacardi is no substitute for 8 hours sleep". The patrols flown between each base were generally 12 to 14 hours duration.
Tell the young uns today an'they wun't believe you......
The Ancient Mariner
Tell the young uns today an'they wun't believe you......
The Ancient Mariner
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Thanks to Legal Approach for specifying the new regs so clearly. Question is: "what do these limits mean in practice?"
The extant rules regarding bottle-to-throttle time are unambiguous and easily understood. However neither I, nor the plethora of experienced aviators I've spoken to about this, have any clear idea of how to ensure we comply with the new 9mg limit - short of abstaining altogether, which ain't gonna happen!
In other words, please step up RAFCAM: some guidance on bottle-to-throttle time, and how much is safe to drink before that, would be widely appreciated. Yes, I know people metabolise alcohol at different rates, but that hasn't prevented issuing of such guidance in the past - and should not do so now!
The extant rules regarding bottle-to-throttle time are unambiguous and easily understood. However neither I, nor the plethora of experienced aviators I've spoken to about this, have any clear idea of how to ensure we comply with the new 9mg limit - short of abstaining altogether, which ain't gonna happen!
In other words, please step up RAFCAM: some guidance on bottle-to-throttle time, and how much is safe to drink before that, would be widely appreciated. Yes, I know people metabolise alcohol at different rates, but that hasn't prevented issuing of such guidance in the past - and should not do so now!
In other words, please step up RAFCAM: some guidance on bottle-to-throttle time, and how much is safe to drink before that, would be widely appreciated.
Easiest annual medical I ever had was the day after RAF BZN's Med Centre had had their Christmas party. When it came to "And how much do you drink?", I answered "Probably less in a week than you had last night!" to the sweating, obviously hung over quack....
Well we got a GASO update today that gave bottle-to-throttle guidance that seemed woefully optimistic and I understand the medics are now on the case.
What was less helpful was the link to the DIN and the guidance to plow through the new Armed Forces Act 2011 (goes live tomorrow) and the Transport and Railways Act.
Just how much more difficult can they make it to understand?
Although I did understand the 2 years in prison for driving to work legally and then authorising a trip whilst over the 'higher' limit.
What was less helpful was the link to the DIN and the guidance to plow through the new Armed Forces Act 2011 (goes live tomorrow) and the Transport and Railways Act.
Just how much more difficult can they make it to understand?
Although I did understand the 2 years in prison for driving to work legally and then authorising a trip whilst over the 'higher' limit.
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Nothing to add except that one extremely plastered FJ jock I knew went on to the highest rank...nuff said. That was the ethos of the times, that was the way it was, I was no different.
To show how little we really knew back then, an example I always quote is the 'crew round' we would enjoy after a long trip in the Vulcan if we landed in the evening when the 'pub' was open....
After debrief, it was down to the scruffs' bar. Beer was 20p per pint, there were 5 of us in the crew, so a round cost £1......
5 pints later we'd drive to our homes, thinking nothing of it.
Not that I'm defending such activity, but it was the norm for the era..... And many of us are still living happily ever after!!
After debrief, it was down to the scruffs' bar. Beer was 20p per pint, there were 5 of us in the crew, so a round cost £1......
5 pints later we'd drive to our homes, thinking nothing of it.
Not that I'm defending such activity, but it was the norm for the era..... And many of us are still living happily ever after!!
Last edited by BEagle; 31st Oct 2013 at 20:41.
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Not that I'm defending such activity, but it was the norm for the era
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There was an urban legend of the C130 Captain that flew a 6 hour leg from AKI back to LYN, then got done for drink drive on the M4 
Any truth in that one?
Any truth in that one?
Last edited by Kengineer-130; 31st Oct 2013 at 23:52.
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I remember my wages tripling when I joined. I was earning £11.70 a week as an apprentice electrician (out of which I forked out £4 to mum and dad for board and still managed to run a motorbyke and get leathered every weekend) and I went from that to £35 a week as an airman. Felt like a millionaire.
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Please read the link on my previous post. Or any others that come up with a Google search on "alcohol metabolisation".
We all metabolise alcohol at the same rate - 0.015 BAC per hour. Unless you're an alcoholic, in which case you metabolise it faster, or have a rare condition that causes you to produce your own alcohol or not metabolise it at all.
The main difference is in how fast you absorb the alcohol on the first place (type of drink) and how much alcohol increases your BAC by per drink (little people = less blood so the same amount of alcohol means a higher BAC). But once you have a BAC, you shift it at 0.015 per hour. Big or small.
0.08 BAC (just too drunk to drive) will shift to zero in 5 hours. For everyone. Unless you have a rare metabolic condition.
The old guidance of two pints is still good, and nothing in the preceding 10 hours.
Even a 5'3" female will struggle to get a BAC over 0.08 with two pints. 5 hours later they will have zero blood alcohol.
Nothing has changed. The DIN simply defines "zero alcohol" as less than 20mg/100ml of blood (or 9mg per 100ml of breath). This is the same limit as Poland and other countries use for their drink/drive limits.
If you were abiding by the previous guidance, nothing has changed! I am seeing unnecessary knee jerk reactions to this DIN and it is frustrating!
Don't get drunk, don't drink late.
Put it another way - after a summer ball you pack away a LOT of alcohol, but you don't hand in your wings, right? No - you just allow sufficient time for the alcohol to clear. That is al we are talking about.
For most 80kg males, 2 pints is around 0.06 BAC. 4 hours later and it is gone.
For smaller people, 2 pints may be as high as 0.08 BAC. 6 hours and it is gone.
Don't drink too much. Definitely don't drink late. Allow your body sufficient time to metabolise the alcohol from your system before working. A couple of glasses of wine with dinner (7pm, assuming you work at 8am) is not going to be a problem.
I am hearing "no mid week bar visits" from my hierarchy, which seems ill informed. This is my own opinion.
Do your own research, and hopefully you will see that there is still a place for going to the mess for a pint after work.
Again, throw spears if you think I am missing something.
Thanks for reading.
We all metabolise alcohol at the same rate - 0.015 BAC per hour. Unless you're an alcoholic, in which case you metabolise it faster, or have a rare condition that causes you to produce your own alcohol or not metabolise it at all.
The main difference is in how fast you absorb the alcohol on the first place (type of drink) and how much alcohol increases your BAC by per drink (little people = less blood so the same amount of alcohol means a higher BAC). But once you have a BAC, you shift it at 0.015 per hour. Big or small.
0.08 BAC (just too drunk to drive) will shift to zero in 5 hours. For everyone. Unless you have a rare metabolic condition.
The old guidance of two pints is still good, and nothing in the preceding 10 hours.
Even a 5'3" female will struggle to get a BAC over 0.08 with two pints. 5 hours later they will have zero blood alcohol.
Nothing has changed. The DIN simply defines "zero alcohol" as less than 20mg/100ml of blood (or 9mg per 100ml of breath). This is the same limit as Poland and other countries use for their drink/drive limits.
If you were abiding by the previous guidance, nothing has changed! I am seeing unnecessary knee jerk reactions to this DIN and it is frustrating!
Don't get drunk, don't drink late.
Put it another way - after a summer ball you pack away a LOT of alcohol, but you don't hand in your wings, right? No - you just allow sufficient time for the alcohol to clear. That is al we are talking about.
For most 80kg males, 2 pints is around 0.06 BAC. 4 hours later and it is gone.
For smaller people, 2 pints may be as high as 0.08 BAC. 6 hours and it is gone.
Don't drink too much. Definitely don't drink late. Allow your body sufficient time to metabolise the alcohol from your system before working. A couple of glasses of wine with dinner (7pm, assuming you work at 8am) is not going to be a problem.
I am hearing "no mid week bar visits" from my hierarchy, which seems ill informed. This is my own opinion.
Do your own research, and hopefully you will see that there is still a place for going to the mess for a pint after work.
Again, throw spears if you think I am missing something.
Thanks for reading.
