TSR-2 Files
Gentleman Aviator
And does not Mountbottom figure in another aspect?
Did he not badmouth TSR-2 to the Aussies which - amongst other factors - led to them preferring F-111 to TSR??
Did he not badmouth TSR-2 to the Aussies which - amongst other factors - led to them preferring F-111 to TSR??
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TSR-2 Files
I don't know if its directly related but I too had researched the rumours naming Lord Mountbatten as titular head of a post coup-de-etat administration in the late 60s to early 70s, such was the exasperation in some (presumably powerful) quarters with the Wilson government. If true however I suspect it would have had a lot more to do with just TSR-2.
Fascinating to speculate "what might have happened" had such a move gone ahead. You just can't imagine such a thing happening here though.
Lord Mountbatten of course was a navy man and no apparent friend of TSR-2, so even a post coup Britain would presumably have been sans TSR. She just couldn't win could she?
Fascinating to speculate "what might have happened" had such a move gone ahead. You just can't imagine such a thing happening here though.
Lord Mountbatten of course was a navy man and no apparent friend of TSR-2, so even a post coup Britain would presumably have been sans TSR. She just couldn't win could she?
TSR2 was a messed up project from the start as far as the RAF was concerned it was the only game in town as far as new combat aircraft. It wasn't going to replace the V-bombers either, as that role was going to Blue Streak (until it was canned in 1960), then Skybolt and finally to Polaris. Because it was the only fixed wing combat aircraft that the RAF was going to get, they asked for all the bells and whistles in the operational requirement. The project was badly mismanaged, the aircraft would have been a complete pig to fix had it ever made it into service and very unlikely to be able to do the mission it was designed to do. Mountbatten knew this and was pushing for an aircraft that could do 80% of the job for 20% of the cost (i.e. Buccaneer). Air Staff also got very cold feet about the project and wanted something to replace the Canberras and Hunters in Germany as soon as possible. Thus the Labour government did what they were advised by the Defence staff.
Can P1154 (which would have most likely been another pig) and go for an updated P1127/Kestrel and the Phantom.
Can the AW V/STOL transport and get off the shelf Hercs
Can TSR 2 and get F-111 (money issues and the problems that the F-111 were having killed that one), Get Buccs and start work on AFVG (which when the Frogs pulled out led to Tornado).
Start work with the Frogs in getting a new Trainer / Light Attack aircraft (Jaguar).
Get a load of new Helicopters in partnership with the French and the Sceptics. (the planned 30 Chinnok buy had to be canned as the money ran out, but Labour made up for it in the late 1970s).
Can P1154 (which would have most likely been another pig) and go for an updated P1127/Kestrel and the Phantom.
Can the AW V/STOL transport and get off the shelf Hercs
Can TSR 2 and get F-111 (money issues and the problems that the F-111 were having killed that one), Get Buccs and start work on AFVG (which when the Frogs pulled out led to Tornado).
Start work with the Frogs in getting a new Trainer / Light Attack aircraft (Jaguar).
Get a load of new Helicopters in partnership with the French and the Sceptics. (the planned 30 Chinnok buy had to be canned as the money ran out, but Labour made up for it in the late 1970s).
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There were rumours. General Sir Walter Walker had proposed a Civil Assistance programme. Look him up.
This was well after the TSR2 issue.
Mountbatten, from the same source, was also the subject of rumours.
This was well after the TSR2 issue.
Mountbatten was CDS until 15 Jul 1965 and would have had the ear of the PM at that time. As TSR2 was already controversial when Wilson came to power, all it would have needed was damning with faint praise.
This was well after the TSR2 issue.
Mountbatten, from the same source, was also the subject of rumours.
This was well after the TSR2 issue.
Mountbatten was CDS until 15 Jul 1965 and would have had the ear of the PM at that time. As TSR2 was already controversial when Wilson came to power, all it would have needed was damning with faint praise.
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What gives you the idea that the committed navy, navy loving and RAF hating chap that Mountbatten was had an in depth knowledge of whether the TSR2 could fulfil its mission?
I have heard many stories, read many books and watched many documentaries on the subject. Most folks are convinced Mountbatten disliked the TSR2 for reasons other than whether it could do its mission, and also wanted to up the sales for Buccaneer. In some ways Mountbatten was the 'Sharky' of his day IMHO. Both are very pro RN, and both consider themselves royalty
What gives you the idea that the committed navy, navy loving and RAF hating chap that Mountbatten was had an in depth knowledge of whether the TSR2 could fulfil its mission?
I have heard many stories, read many books and watched many documentaries on the subject. Most folks are convinced Mountbatten disliked the TSR2 for reasons other than whether it could do its mission, and also wanted to up the sales for Buccaneer. In some ways Mountbatten was the 'Sharky' of his day IMHO. Both are very pro RN, and both consider themselves royalty
Most people had outside toilets, no central heating, no bank account, were still paying off WW2
Last edited by Basil; 28th Oct 2013 at 01:21. Reason: Sp - Duh!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We was posh. We had too loos. One outside used by the rats and garden tools and one inside. We had central heating in our semi - the central dividing wall allowed for a fire place in every room, though we could only afford coal for the living room to heat the water.
Got a fridge in the mid-50s and a washing machine in the mid-60s (twin tub, remember them) when the stove top water bath rusted through.
Got a fridge in the mid-50s and a washing machine in the mid-60s (twin tub, remember them) when the stove top water bath rusted through.
My parents bungalow, new built in W London in 1939, had a built in copper boiler in the kitchen for the washing with a folding mangle above it - funny - nearly 70 years on I can still smell it, and there is lot of dust in the air.
The copper was replaced by a twin tub I guess in the 60s.
The copper was replaced by a twin tub I guess in the 60s.
Last edited by Wander00; 28th Oct 2013 at 09:17.
We had an Ascot gas water heater in the kitchen, replaced when we got central heating in the 70s. did not see a gas water heater again until we moved to the Vendee 6 years ago. There was a similar appliance in each of the two gites. Got an engineer to come and service them and he condemned both. Guests now have electric water heating.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Grandparents had one over the bath. Scared me sh1tless as a small boy with this fire breathing dragon bubbling away.
Their bungalow was on short stilts, only the front porch was solid to the ground - very modern in case the Thames flooded. All gone, blocks of flats now.
Their bungalow was on short stilts, only the front porch was solid to the ground - very modern in case the Thames flooded. All gone, blocks of flats now.
Bungalow, short stilts, reminds me of the holiday chalets at Jaywick near Southend. Most got washed away in the East Coast floods and were rebuilt even closer together.
