Firemen to get better pension terms than Military.
LJ
In terms of balance the UK military has 300 x 1* officers (earning on average £99,984) and 130 x 2* and above (earning between £113,000 and £175,000 with CDS earning £245,000).
I would suggest that the union leaders are doing a better job per £ of salary defending their members T&Cs and pensions than the military leaders are!
In terms of balance the UK military has 300 x 1* officers (earning on average £99,984) and 130 x 2* and above (earning between £113,000 and £175,000 with CDS earning £245,000).
I would suggest that the union leaders are doing a better job per £ of salary defending their members T&Cs and pensions than the military leaders are!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of England
Age: 74
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Wasting Time
My pension is quite important to me and so I use it carefully.
Anyone else's pension is of no consequence whatsoever to me and so I don't waste my time thinking about it.
Rgds SOS
Anyone else's pension is of no consequence whatsoever to me and so I don't waste my time thinking about it.
Rgds SOS
LJ,
So, you're saying that many Union Leaders ("leading" how many members, and with what level of responsibility?) get paid less than a Flt Lt near the top of the PA spine......
..... and your point is?
So, you're saying that many Union Leaders ("leading" how many members, and with what level of responsibility?) get paid less than a Flt Lt near the top of the PA spine......
..... and your point is?
Biggus,
If you add the pension pot to annual salary, there are only a couple on LJ's list getting less than a PAS 'top whack' Flt Lt.
Far worse than union leaders are the amounts paid to many senior council staff around the UK. Although public sector, they repeatedly refuse to admit what contracts they have negotiated with local government as they declare it to be personal. However, there are a significant number who outpace CDS' modest amount with far fewer staff they hold responsibility for.
I accept though that publc sector pensions are a huge issue that needs to be gripped by our elected leadership. Just like our UK strategy for energy generation. Swept under the carpet till the next lot are in power and subject to very short term mentality only.
If you add the pension pot to annual salary, there are only a couple on LJ's list getting less than a PAS 'top whack' Flt Lt.
Far worse than union leaders are the amounts paid to many senior council staff around the UK. Although public sector, they repeatedly refuse to admit what contracts they have negotiated with local government as they declare it to be personal. However, there are a significant number who outpace CDS' modest amount with far fewer staff they hold responsibility for.
I accept though that publc sector pensions are a huge issue that needs to be gripped by our elected leadership. Just like our UK strategy for energy generation. Swept under the carpet till the next lot are in power and subject to very short term mentality only.
…and what happens if you add the PAS employers' pension contribution to the salary:
For example @ level 32
Salary £75,501.00
Pension £26,651.85
Total £102,152.85
(figures taken from Armed Forces Benefits Calculator, ignoring all the other waffle)
For example @ level 32
Salary £75,501.00
Pension £26,651.85
Total £102,152.85
(figures taken from Armed Forces Benefits Calculator, ignoring all the other waffle)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest that the union leaders are doing a better job per £ of salary defending their members T&Cs and pensions than the military leaders are!
Last 3 years of military pay 'rises': 0%, 0%, 1.5(?)%
Last 3 yrs of train driver pay rises: 5.5%, 3.7%, 3.2%
Most staff are on circa RPI + 0.5% to 1.0%
On the other hand, train driver's don't get an annual increment roughly equal to 1.3%, and the final salary pension is salary sacrifice.
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 22nd Oct 2013 at 19:52.
Which is all fine, girls and boys, until you consider that the average person who is paying Union Subs to pay these people earn between 30-60% less. Furthermore, leading a strike once in a while for £60k-£90k plus perks sounds like "troughing" to me!
Stereotypical?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a9OAvqyjn0
LJ
Stereotypical?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a9OAvqyjn0
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 22nd Oct 2013 at 19:57.
LJ, I see and accept what you are saying but these people do appear to get better results for their membership than we get from our own system. As such, their membership may see their salaries as a fair price to pay.
I fear that we do not get the representation we deserve. The AFPRB is toothless and the SC Commissioner reflects on her own limited powers and seeks the role of an empowered ombudsman. Our seniors stand divided, made to compete with each other and, occasionally, are self-serving.
For generations the military had fair representation at political level principally through the sheer number of politicians with prior military experience. We are perhaps the first military generation where this no longer holds true.
I fear that we do not get the representation we deserve. The AFPRB is toothless and the SC Commissioner reflects on her own limited powers and seeks the role of an empowered ombudsman. Our seniors stand divided, made to compete with each other and, occasionally, are self-serving.
For generations the military had fair representation at political level principally through the sheer number of politicians with prior military experience. We are perhaps the first military generation where this no longer holds true.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: raf
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leon,
The average person paying union subs towards full time union leaders is no different than the average tax payer who is paying for public sector wages. Hang on, the person paying union subs has a choice. Maybe some see union subs like paying an insurance policy, you pay a small amount every month in case you need it.
I also agree with JTO comments about spineless yes men.
Also it does raise questions about the "independence" of pay review bodies when they get sacked after recommending a pay rise.
The average person paying union subs towards full time union leaders is no different than the average tax payer who is paying for public sector wages. Hang on, the person paying union subs has a choice. Maybe some see union subs like paying an insurance policy, you pay a small amount every month in case you need it.
I also agree with JTO comments about spineless yes men.
Also it does raise questions about the "independence" of pay review bodies when they get sacked after recommending a pay rise.
Last edited by gr4techie; 22nd Oct 2013 at 22:59.
Thread Starter
Well, the last five posts have got the message
.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the UK Armed Forces are about to get the bat well and truly stuffed up their pension terms! The world is a dangerous place and I forsee that Service personel will continue to be very hard working and exposed to great risk in the future. Everyone should realise that they will be disadvantaged compared to other public service professionals because their VSO's fail to understand and fight for better parity.
Just remember that some other ( civilian ) public servants retire at age 50 on half salary because their chief's fought for 1/60th salary accrual rate on the basis that it was a dangerous job.
OAP
.Ladies and Gentlemen, the UK Armed Forces are about to get the bat well and truly stuffed up their pension terms! The world is a dangerous place and I forsee that Service personel will continue to be very hard working and exposed to great risk in the future. Everyone should realise that they will be disadvantaged compared to other public service professionals because their VSO's fail to understand and fight for better parity.
Just remember that some other ( civilian ) public servants retire at age 50 on half salary because their chief's fought for 1/60th salary accrual rate on the basis that it was a dangerous job.
OAP
"All out" again Brothers/Sisters! On 1 Nov 13 and 4 Nov 13 this time.
What makes this lot think it's so special compared to others like the Grangemouth mob? I hope the Govt agree to fold them all up and offer it to PFI.
What makes this lot think it's so special compared to others like the Grangemouth mob? I hope the Govt agree to fold them all up and offer it to PFI.
"All out" again Brothers/Sisters! On 1 Nov 13 and 4 Nov 13 this time.
What makes this lot think it's so special compared to others like the Grangemouth mob? I hope the Govt agree to fold them all up and offer it to PFI.
What makes this lot think it's so special compared to others like the Grangemouth mob? I hope the Govt agree to fold them all up and offer it to PFI.
But I wish you all the best in any case.
MD
MD
No resentfulness, just trying to be real. There is one thing that I really dislike, though; Unions and militancy. Both of those have sunk many industries in the UK when they cannot see beyond the ends of their noses. When you get the likes of Crow or Wrack harping on about "safety", I think to my self poppy-cock, it's all about the money and getting more for the individual.
Whilst I wish you no ill personally, I do believe that the other side of this that is not understood is the amount of embuggerance this causes for others: those being stood up to provide the continguency under the Civil Continguencies Act 2004, the non-FBU member personnel who work in the FRS, the Armed Forces (alright a small amount compared to Op FRESCO, but it is messing about a small cadre) and also the County Council Resilience Planners, etc...
Maybe you can understand that I am feeling this embuggerance which is about to wreck another week and weekend for me when my terms and conditions are already to retire at a far later age? So this is my personal gripe due to the FBU's membership actions affecting my personal life.
Finally, a quick scan of the comments in the local online papers across the country reveals that my attitude is pretty popular amongst the UK's populace. Furthermore, I note that an on-line petition that ran for 3 weeks only attracted 5,000 of the 10,000 needed. So I just don't believe that the majority of this country is behind you guys - we're all suffering because Bliar and his 'financial genius' spent all our cash and then borrowed even more!
LJ
PS As for boozing at taxpayers' expense? That little luxury fell apart years ago with the introduction of providing receipts for everything claimed - which is a right pain in the...
No resentfulness, just trying to be real. There is one thing that I really dislike, though; Unions and militancy. Both of those have sunk many industries in the UK when they cannot see beyond the ends of their noses. When you get the likes of Crow or Wrack harping on about "safety", I think to my self poppy-cock, it's all about the money and getting more for the individual.
Whilst I wish you no ill personally, I do believe that the other side of this that is not understood is the amount of embuggerance this causes for others: those being stood up to provide the continguency under the Civil Continguencies Act 2004, the non-FBU member personnel who work in the FRS, the Armed Forces (alright a small amount compared to Op FRESCO, but it is messing about a small cadre) and also the County Council Resilience Planners, etc...
Maybe you can understand that I am feeling this embuggerance which is about to wreck another week and weekend for me when my terms and conditions are already to retire at a far later age? So this is my personal gripe due to the FBU's membership actions affecting my personal life.
Finally, a quick scan of the comments in the local online papers across the country reveals that my attitude is pretty popular amongst the UK's populace. Furthermore, I note that an on-line petition that ran for 3 weeks only attracted 5,000 of the 10,000 needed. So I just don't believe that the majority of this country is behind you guys - we're all suffering because Bliar and his 'financial genius' spent all our cash and then borrowed even more!
LJ
PS As for boozing at taxpayers' expense? That little luxury fell apart years ago with the introduction of providing receipts for everything claimed - which is a right pain in the...
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 26th Oct 2013 at 09:10.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOSL hinted at it, but it seems to have flown right over most heads here. So, once more with feeling...stop comparing yourselves to others as in "we are the most special".
It's pathetic.
Serviceman are special. Fact. So are many other people in society. Also fact.
Serviceman enjoy a superb pension scheme. Fact. Huge swathes of people in our society doing all sort of necessary jobs, have no pension scheme whatsoever...or are paying huge chunks of money for derisory returns. Fact.
It is OK to fight your corner, in fact I am personally grateful for those that do that. It is not OK to fight your corner by slagging off or belittling fellow public servants just be you are stupid enough to buy in to the boll0cks printed in the media.
If the cap fits...
It's pathetic.
Serviceman are special. Fact. So are many other people in society. Also fact.
Serviceman enjoy a superb pension scheme. Fact. Huge swathes of people in our society doing all sort of necessary jobs, have no pension scheme whatsoever...or are paying huge chunks of money for derisory returns. Fact.
It is OK to fight your corner, in fact I am personally grateful for those that do that. It is not OK to fight your corner by slagging off or belittling fellow public servants just be you are stupid enough to buy in to the boll0cks printed in the media.
If the cap fits...
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 26th Oct 2013 at 10:54.
TOFO
Fair points mate, however, I do hope you don't think I'm belittling other public servants? That is not my inent.
I would like to belittle the people that dragged themselves to the negotiation table and within 4 days, to the astonishment of the other side, they stomped off announcing further action. It all looks a bit churlish to me...
...just my personal opinion, though.
LJ
Fair points mate, however, I do hope you don't think I'm belittling other public servants? That is not my inent.
I would like to belittle the people that dragged themselves to the negotiation table and within 4 days, to the astonishment of the other side, they stomped off announcing further action. It all looks a bit churlish to me...
...just my personal opinion, though.
LJ