1980s RAF fast jet numbers
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Swindon
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1980s RAF fast jet numbers
I am a lecturer at Shrivenham undertaking research into long term reliability in fast jets and associated fleet management.
I have received data from industry and MoD on 1980s aircraft (Buccaneer, Harrier, Phantom, Jaguar) with almost all the numbers I need (MTBF, arisings etc.), but one thing missing is the number of aircraft in units.
Could anyone who may have flown/supported these platforms let me know how many aircraft were in front line units in the mid 1980s, as well as the strength of the OCUs?
My current 'guesstimates' from a variety of sources give:
Harrier GR.3 - 12 in No.1 Squadron, 18 in each German squadron, OCU - no idea (but large-ish - 25 or so, mix of GR and T).
Phantom - 15 per squadron, OCU unclear.
Buccaneer - total of 32 in 2 squadrons plus OCU, also Hunter T.8Bs
Jaguar - 3 UK squadrons 12 each, OCU not clear.
All of these may be wrong. Any help correcting them would be much appreciated.
I have received data from industry and MoD on 1980s aircraft (Buccaneer, Harrier, Phantom, Jaguar) with almost all the numbers I need (MTBF, arisings etc.), but one thing missing is the number of aircraft in units.
Could anyone who may have flown/supported these platforms let me know how many aircraft were in front line units in the mid 1980s, as well as the strength of the OCUs?
My current 'guesstimates' from a variety of sources give:
Harrier GR.3 - 12 in No.1 Squadron, 18 in each German squadron, OCU - no idea (but large-ish - 25 or so, mix of GR and T).
Phantom - 15 per squadron, OCU unclear.
Buccaneer - total of 32 in 2 squadrons plus OCU, also Hunter T.8Bs
Jaguar - 3 UK squadrons 12 each, OCU not clear.
All of these may be wrong. Any help correcting them would be much appreciated.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Swindon
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you mean for the Jaguar? I could not find any unit establishment numbers for them, but assume that as they transitioned to Tornado that numbers fluctuated. Presumably the Coltishall wing was more constant, and the data I have separates RAFG from UK units.
Originally Posted by Wetstart Dryrun
...and what about the TWU Hunters?
But as Newt says, Lightning served until mid-88, and what about Tornado, which entered service in '82 IIRC.
Perhaps this is just only for all a/c that were flying in service from 1980 to 1990 inclusive....?
Certainly still going 1982.
234 Sqn would bound out to their nice new Hawks and aviate.
79 Sqn would shuffle out, and half would shuffle back, kicking their helmets along the pan.
...but can a Hawk do the 'blue note'?
wets
234 Sqn would bound out to their nice new Hawks and aviate.
79 Sqn would shuffle out, and half would shuffle back, kicking their helmets along the pan.
...but can a Hawk do the 'blue note'?
wets
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buccaneer Strike Squadrons in Germany (XV & 16) had 12 aircraft and 18 crews on each squadron. Squadrons in the UK (12, 208 and for a short time 216) also had 12 aircraft with the same crew ratio. Crew ratio was set at 1.5 to 1 to man Strike QRA and maintain the strike capability.
Bloggs
Bloggs
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I have received data from industry and MoD on 1980s aircraft
RAFG Phantom AD Sqns
The strength of the 2 x RAFG Phantom AD units (19 Sqn & 92 Sqn) from formation to at least 1980 was 10 x Aircraft Established (AE) + 1 x In-Use Reserve (IUR). AE were funded - IUR were issued if available but not funded, were often "Christmas Trees" robbed for spares, but could be generated as additional aircraft for alerts and NATO TACEVALs. In those days, all aircraft assigned to a unit were counted in % Combat Available figures during evaluations and this enabled a higher than 100% figure to be achieved. When an aircraft was due to be swapped out for a Major servicing at St Athan, it was a good trick to have the replacement flown out to RAFG first just before the TACEVAL and then if the aircraft due out went U/S it was retained then generated for TACEVAL. The crew ratio on RAFG Phantom units was 2:1 for AE.
Some NATO air forces which relied on TACEVAL results to support requests for funding exploited this (at the time) loophole to an extreme extent. For example, Luftwaffe F-104G wings had 52 aircraft assigned for 2 x 18-aircraft sqns.
Some NATO air forces which relied on TACEVAL results to support requests for funding exploited this (at the time) loophole to an extreme extent. For example, Luftwaffe F-104G wings had 52 aircraft assigned for 2 x 18-aircraft sqns.
Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 19th Sep 2013 at 18:25.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Knowing what you growbags are like I'm surprised some wag hasn't questioned the inclusion of Harriers as 'fast jets'.
Vern, Dude!!!
Well, yes, but I can't remember the numbers. I suppose we needed more to protect the fleet in case the Harriers couldn't do it.
Well, yes, but I can't remember the numbers. I suppose we needed more to protect the fleet in case the Harriers couldn't do it.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 19th Sep 2013 at 18:39.
I can't answer the OP's question - but I would think that a call to Air Historical Branch and a few hours spent rifling through F540s at Northolt would do the trick. Every squadron F540 I've ever been involved with has contained a table of monthly aircraft strength... and I wouldn't be surprised if the Group or Command F540s had similar tables. Should be a simple research task!
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RAF aircraft numbers.............literally
Try Ian Allan Military Aircraft Markings. Updated annually it lists every UK Military aircraft by serial number and in some instances unit but mostly listed by which Group they were assigned to. The 1982 edition shows 27 Phantoms assigned to 228 OCU for example, but the UK based squadron aircraft are assigned to 11 Gp and the Germany based aircraft are assigned to RAFG. Knowing the number of squadrons active at the time would give you how many aircraft were assigned to each. There were 26 FGR 2's assigned to RAFG so one might assume 13 per sqn (although RAF eng states that there were 11, not sure why there would be that difference - aircraft in Major maybe). The other aircraft types are listed in the same way, even the ones in storage or at Boscombe etc are identified. Not part of the fast jet bit but the Vulcans are actually listed by squadron as are Canberras, guess that might be down to Command/Group willingness to declare where the frames were assigned to.
It's fascinating to look at how many aircraft we had and how many types. It even lists the USAF aircraft that were based in the UK, lines and lines of F111s RF4s and A10s. Those were the days!
I am going to get the 2013 edition to compare then and now. It must be a shadow of it's former self!
It's fascinating to look at how many aircraft we had and how many types. It even lists the USAF aircraft that were based in the UK, lines and lines of F111s RF4s and A10s. Those were the days!
I am going to get the 2013 edition to compare then and now. It must be a shadow of it's former self!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All over the place
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was a Liney on 228 OCU in the 80's we did a Station Generation Exercise - might have been Taceval Part 1 but my memory fails me ??
I was Man A on the Team to start up the 25th and last OCU Phantoom to be declared serviceable to Wing Ops.
And as I remember Mike Widdoson flashed the finger at the 29F hangar as he climbed out, I think they were on #3 - take that you buggers LOL
Then we had a monster Beer Call on the grass outside the Line Hut 
Happy Daze
regards
Howie
I was Man A on the Team to start up the 25th and last OCU Phantoom to be declared serviceable to Wing Ops.
And as I remember Mike Widdoson flashed the finger at the 29F hangar as he climbed out, I think they were on #3 - take that you buggers LOL
Then we had a monster Beer Call on the grass outside the Line Hut Happy Daze
regards
Howie
Last edited by howiehowie93; 20th Sep 2013 at 11:47.
This site should have all the information you need - though might be difficult extracting it all:
UK Serials
Perhaps if you write to the the site owner he might be able to provide the information in some sort of database format.
UK Serials
Perhaps if you write to the the site owner he might be able to provide the information in some sort of database format.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In order to use that IUR aircraft people would have to work overtime and stores and fuel would be 'skimmed' from the allocation against the AE.
Then besides AE and IUR would be aircraft returned to industry or for major servicing or written off; that accounts for the aircraft on sqns being lower than the number of aircraft bought.
We had a lecturer at Cranwell whose topic was also reliability in fast jets - essentially low reliability and lots of teething problems as aircraft delivered from industry, a long period of high availability against time, followed by increasing lack of availability as the aircraft fleet aged.
The complexity of the aircraft and availability of spares was a factor on how long the high availability period lasted.
I imagine the VC10, Tri-Star and C130K would all be beyond the high availability period.
