Puddle Jumpers in the Machynlleth Loop
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Puddle Jumpers in the Machynlleth Loop
Not sure what to think of this? Especially as they seem to know it is well trodden by military aircraft flying 2-3 times their speed!!!
The comments on You Tube make interesting reading as well. Can a civvy book into the UK Low Flying System?
The comments on You Tube make interesting reading as well. Can a civvy book into the UK Low Flying System?
Flying in Wales is quite beautiful, but used extensively by the RAF to perfect low flying so while to GA it is in open FIR you would be quite stupid to low fly (500ft +) any aircraft in the area without prior checking of the Low Flying System and speaking to the correct people. So that's what we did and we also had an aircraft capable of climbing out of the valleys through any cloud, so 120+ kts, sitting on parachutes with all our lights on keeping a very good eye out for anything else around.
The following day a microlight obviously did not think about what or where they were going and a Typhoon had to abort its low level run through. not exactly flight safety aware whoever that was.
The following day a microlight obviously did not think about what or where they were going and a Typhoon had to abort its low level run through. not exactly flight safety aware whoever that was.
Last edited by Corporal Clott; 9th Sep 2013 at 22:21.
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The days on which UK LFAs are active are made known by the MOD so, it shouldn't be a problem to arrange to wazz through the Mach loop in GA aircraft without the risk of getting intimate with FJ traffic...
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I personally like flying through Wales below 2000' which is well into the realms of busy FJ traffic. A couple of quick calls to the Valley Ops and central flight planners for the RAF/MOD and they are more than happy to let you know time windows that are completely free. I often get questioned at what made me want to phone as they are keen to tell me that a lot of people fly below 2000' through Wales without even letting Valley know they are around, let alone phone up first!!
Don't see a problem as long as you have "booked" yourself in with TAC booking which this fella did.
Open FIR or not, to go pootling into a well publicized area of the low flying system unannounced is just plain daft.
Open FIR or not, to go pootling into a well publicized area of the low flying system unannounced is just plain daft.
I don't see much evidence of adequate low-level lOOkout in that clip.
One wonders what they did after 6.30 as they approached that letterbox?
One wonders what they did after 6.30 as they approached that letterbox?
Last edited by BEagle; 10th Sep 2013 at 06:19.
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LFAs
There certainly is an AIC about booking HRA 14T as I have used that to book with TBC a few ago to take pics of Loch Hope/Ben Hope similiar to a painting I have called Broken Silence.I cant remember if it included 7T but I imagine a similiar AIC in plsce.
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I sense the undercurrent here is "how dare some mere civvy fly over this green and pleasant land (well, Wales) without requiring a chit signed in triplicate by some Wg Cdr". Well they don't. There's plenty of sky and even at hot spots like Mach loop the spotters sometimes have to wait hours between flybys these days. No prob so long as all parties operate professionally, as seems to have been the case here.
Originally Posted by ShotOne
I sense the undercurrent here is "how dare some mere civvy fly over this green and pleasant land
I know who the handling pilot is and he keeps and flies his aircraft at a RAF airfield. He is a serving ground branch officer and an enthusiastic and active private pilot.
Not wanting to be too hard on him, I'm glad to see he took steps to notify and check his flight in the LFA. i'm also glad to see him wearing gloves as burned-to-a-crisp digits aren't much good but arm/skin burns are liveable with. I also agree with BEagle, the letterbox lurking at the end of the video looks a bit ominous!
Nice video but I hope it doesn't egg others on to do things that haven't taken the steps he has. He did have a couple of attempts at flying training of various flavours, so he does have better than average awareness of military flying than most PPL holders.
Finally, I don't mean this to be a "them and us" between the mil and GA. I fly both types and there is definate amount of airmanship required - I wouldn't fly around the Loop without checking with the Booking Cell and Valley first, just like I wouldn't take a Tornado and charge around the ATZ at Gloucester Airport without talking to them and checking it's clear
LJ
PS. Check out the video poster's other video of flying the Bulldog down Derwent with G-Helmets, Goggles and home made UPKEEP bomb-sight - very amusing!
Not wanting to be too hard on him, I'm glad to see he took steps to notify and check his flight in the LFA. i'm also glad to see him wearing gloves as burned-to-a-crisp digits aren't much good but arm/skin burns are liveable with. I also agree with BEagle, the letterbox lurking at the end of the video looks a bit ominous!
Nice video but I hope it doesn't egg others on to do things that haven't taken the steps he has. He did have a couple of attempts at flying training of various flavours, so he does have better than average awareness of military flying than most PPL holders.
Finally, I don't mean this to be a "them and us" between the mil and GA. I fly both types and there is definate amount of airmanship required - I wouldn't fly around the Loop without checking with the Booking Cell and Valley first, just like I wouldn't take a Tornado and charge around the ATZ at Gloucester Airport without talking to them and checking it's clear
LJ
PS. Check out the video poster's other video of flying the Bulldog down Derwent with G-Helmets, Goggles and home made UPKEEP bomb-sight - very amusing!
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We did low level in the 'dog down to 250' and that doesn't leave a great deal of scope for an engine failure whatever the location. Oh, and much of it was in Wales. At least in the Hawk a pull up would give you enough time for the Martin baker option.
Last edited by Legalapproach; 10th Sep 2013 at 20:19.
At 420kts you can get quite a long way in a Hawk post engine failure. Your options from a low level engine failure in a Bulldog are quite limited and the spar you sit on is quite unforgiving.
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Most GA pilots wouldn't have a clue what your all talking about.
To have access to the documentation about these routes would involve them paying money to the MOD.
Wales is class G so thanks to policy your all put at higher risk by flying that route.
Please put forward to all your safety types that restricting the MIL AIP to those that are willing to pay for it is a really w@nk idea.
To have access to the documentation about these routes would involve them paying money to the MOD.
Wales is class G so thanks to policy your all put at higher risk by flying that route.
Please put forward to all your safety types that restricting the MIL AIP to those that are willing to pay for it is a really w@nk idea.
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There are quite a few points in the Loop where an engine failure in a SEP would not be good.
Last time I went to Wales was to Haverfordwest, I flew most of the length of Wales at 7,000' still seemed close to the pointy bits at times to me. Mountains, unpleasant things. Best avoided.
Orca,
A "couple" of years ago my instructor gave me a simulated birdstrike and associated flameout in that very spot. Zoom climb and "successful" recovery to the nearest suitable diversion. It wasn't pretty, but it might have worked in the real case.
A "couple" of years ago my instructor gave me a simulated birdstrike and associated flameout in that very spot. Zoom climb and "successful" recovery to the nearest suitable diversion. It wasn't pretty, but it might have worked in the real case.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Many, many years ago, when I was learning to fly helicopters, we did our mountain-flying training around Snowdon in a Whirlwind. Didn't worry about it at the time, but landing on mountainsides in a single-engine helicopter is Bl**dy dangerous. 
