Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Our Boys Behaving Badly

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Our Boys Behaving Badly

Old 2nd Sep 2013, 09:23
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Westerham, Kent
Posts: 97
Our Boys Behaving Badly

The story of six British Army rugby players beating a New York cop to a pulp in a bar room brawl incited by a racial slur may come across as nothing more than a display of clashing alcohol-fuelled egos but, at the same time, it is important that we encourage servicemen and women to at least try and maintain some sort of dignity, even in their drunkenness!

Yes, bravado and willy-waving can take place (if they must) but the modern soldier should remember (as those before have done) that in such circumstances a degree of restraint is in fact the greater show of strength and decidedly more British.

The armed forces might be one of the last places where some sort of decency and decorum for all "classes" of Brits are taught. Let's keep it that way and lets hold on to our enviable heritage of self-control and basic good manners.

In a related theme and without getting into a religious debate I would add the following: Military Chaplains should have a more rigorous selection process so as to ensure that the Forces not only have "real men" serving as Chaplains in their ranks but those who can contribute towards the cultivation of decent morals, behaviour and good manners. There is so much more that Chaplains could do in the military if they were properly organised and much of it doesn't have to be religious per se but would dovetail with their overall aims of serving others. Notwithstanding the latter, there are of course one or two good Padres in the Forces, but there could be more and again, its something we should hold on to against the tide of politically correct anti-Christian, anti-patriotic and anti-British sentiment which threatens to sweep across our land.
Churchills Ghost is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 09:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK, VN, TW.
Age: 57
Posts: 119
Gosh, for a moment there I thought you were going to post on the Al-Sweady Inquiry, UK soldier evidence commencing today.

But it's about British Army rugby players. Phew!
hanoijane is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 09:45
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Westerham, Kent
Posts: 97
for a moment there I thought you were going to post on the Al-Sweady Inquiry
No, that is a far more serious and criminal issue. This is to do with the preservation of day-to-day standards of discipline and basic good manners within the Forces.
Churchills Ghost is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 09:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 55
Posts: 4,244
And especially when representing not only your Regiment but your
country overseas.
500N is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:10
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
Called one of them a black [email protected]

Then pulled a knife and cut one of them.

Only got slapped a bit with no bones broken.

Sounds like they were quite restrained.

Rugby tour, infantry regiment and Fijian, remarkable restraint to be honest. Your lucky it wasn't a Ghurkha and he had spat in there general direction.
You can't expect them to turn the aggression off and on with a flick of a switch and still do there jobs.

The taking the mobile phone though was bang out of order.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:14
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
All those who are found to fall short of the Army’s high standards will face disciplinary action, up to and including discharge.
...but only once they get out of jail in the States.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:19
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 55
Posts: 4,244
Courtney

You lived there, how long will they get in jail or
will they be handed over to the UK Mil and flown
out straight away ?
500N is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:28
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Westerham, Kent
Posts: 97
And especially when representing not only your Regiment but your country overseas.
Precisely.

Rugby tour, infantry regiment and Fijian, remarkable restraint to be honest. Your lucky it wasn't a Ghurkha and he had spat in there general direction. You can't expect them to turn the aggression off and on with a flick of a switch and still do there jobs.
Quite so. Still, it can do no harm at all to reinforce those standards and practices which have served our military for so long and which is my basic point.

Re: detaining our boys. There should be an inter-forces agreement to have them returned (between NATO nations) and we handle all matters at home.
Churchills Ghost is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:36
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 55
Posts: 4,244
"Re: detaining our boys. There should be an inter-forces agreement to have them
returned (between NATO nations) and we handle all matters at home."


Which is what happens with most US forces in trouble OS isn't it.

I know of a couple of instances here in Aus where they were handed over
and handled by the "ship".

I also know of one who, I think, came back and had to face court.
500N is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
While these sort of things are covered in the MoU, it will depend on how serious the assault was.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:41
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 51
Posts: 1,389
Hm. So one of them was so insulted he felt he had to nick the blokes phone?



Posted from PPRuNe.org App for Android
Tashengurt is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:41
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
your presuming it happen the way the off duty guy reported it.

Blood half the way up the street and only then did the guy pull a knife and cut one of them. If 4 Fijian Scottish regiment rugby players decide to kick your head in your going nowhere after the first punch has been thrown.

More like the insult was given the lads turned towards him. He announces he is a cop and pulls a knife. That doesn't stop them. They advance and he cuts one of them and then realises that they are really not bothered by a blade. He legs it and the blood up the street is the solders blood that got slashed chasing. They catch him and beat him up.

But we will have to see what there side is.

The mobile phone theft is the big issue and indefensible.

Anyway we shall see what colour the judge is and if there is CCTV

I expect the cop is going to have an interesting time at work when he goes back.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 10:46
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Originally Posted by mad_jock
More like the insult was given the lads turned towards him. He announces he is a cop and pulls a knife. That doesn't stop them. They advance and he cuts one of them and then realises that they are really not bothered by a blade. He legs it and the blood up the street is the solders blood that got slashed chasing. They catch him and beat him up.
You were there, then?

Last edited by Courtney Mil; 2nd Sep 2013 at 10:46.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:07
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,657
From his nom-de-PPRuNe, I guess mad_jock has rather more experience of such matters than you or I, Courtney....

Theft is one thing, violent assualt occasioning actual bodily harm is, in my view, far more serious.

'Only got slapped a bit', indeed..............
BEagle is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:09
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
Nope

But you guys have "walk the guilty [email protected] in" POV.

And yes I have seen similar situations develop with squaddies and end up with conflicting reports on how it proceeded. In both cases the "victim" ended up being the one that was handed down a sentence for carrying and using an offensive weapon. The fact is when 4 guys who are not strangers to fighting decide to beat up 1 person you don't get a running battle.

So the whole timeline description to me stinks. And instead of presuming they are guilty as reported in the newspaper and we all know how good they are for reporting the facts. we should maybe wait and see what's discovered in court.

As I said the stealing the mobile phone is bang out of order and there are no excuses for it.

But the actual incident has only been reported from one side by a racist cop who bit of more than he bargained for. Who now will have to go back to work with his black/coloured/Hispanic colleagues after allegedly calling some one a "black [email protected]" I suspect this won't be his only beating for that comment.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:16
  #16 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,060
beating a New York cop to a pulp
That one little phrase took away most of the credibility of your post.

Called one of them a black [email protected]

Then pulled a knife (the trainee policeman) and cut one of them.

Only got slapped a bit with no bones broken.

Sounds like they were quite restrained.
Very much so. I don't approve of what the soldiers did, despite provocation and alcohol but the trainee cop didn't handle himself very well either. Rest assured, the Army will discipline them but the race card is already out so don't expect too much.

As for service chaplains I think you might get a surprise, the last two I had anything to do with were very much soldier's chaplains, one had done about six years in the SAS then left the Army, came back as a chaplain and specialised in airborne forces, the other, on appointment to the Parachute Brigade, went through 'P' Company and then jumped at every opportunity thereafter. There are/were plenty more like them in the forces.
parabellum is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:19
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swindonshire
Posts: 1,931
Originally Posted by Churchills Ghost View Post
No, that is a far more serious and criminal issue. This is to do with the preservation of day-to-day standards of discipline and basic good manners within the Forces.

Er... Isn't it the job of the inquiry to discover whether that's the case? There are allegations that criminal activity occurred, but equally robust denials from those involved.
Archimedes is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 11:24
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Westerham, Kent
Posts: 97
Parabellum/Archimedes - points noted and in general agreement with your comments.
Churchills Ghost is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 12:10
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
Still, it can do no harm at all to reinforce those standards and practices which have served our military for so long and which is my basic point.
And do you have no idea how many turks got beaten up in Germany over the years.

Or how many civis in Aldershot.

Or how many Fishermen in Arbroath. Although to be fair both parties are just as guilty with that one and its certainly not always the fishermen that come off worst.

My worse personal slapping was in Monchengladbach due being miss ID'd as the sweat that had been shagging one of full screws wife's the previous weekend while they were out on exercise. About the only time I was glad to be out drinking with the recce mech's who did break bones. It was usually me stopping them hitting people.

Last edited by mad_jock; 2nd Sep 2013 at 12:40.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2013, 12:26
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,280
The court was told that when he identified himself as a policeman and ordered them to back off during the confrontation last Friday, they responded: ‘We don’t care. F*** the police.’


Therein lies one distinction between the cousins and ourselves these days - there is a presumption on respect for authority over there that you just wouldn't get in the UK.
Davef68 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.