Who advises the media defence experts?
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"Newspaper consumption is dwindling - maybe the lack in rigour/professionalism is part the problem."
Damn right it is.
How many serious Investigative Journalists are left ?
As opposed to those who just regurgitate something and make it look
good by standing in front of the Hospital, Parliament, Crash scene
or wherever as opposed to actually coming up with something decent
to say themselves.
You could train monkeys to do what most "reporters" do.
And then of course you have the "race to be first", "regardless of accuracy"
issue which seems to blight everyone in the field.
Followed by the whole break down of any ethics.
This thread and the fact that people on here were (jokingly) posting
(false) information and photos on the basis the media looks at this
forum says so much about the media it is not funny.
And finally, re accuracy, years ago, research took a while as you had
to use books. Now, it takes 10 seconds to check the facts and / or
cross reference something. Yet the standard of media is getting worse
even though tools are better.
Anyway, just my HO.
Damn right it is.
How many serious Investigative Journalists are left ?
As opposed to those who just regurgitate something and make it look
good by standing in front of the Hospital, Parliament, Crash scene
or wherever as opposed to actually coming up with something decent
to say themselves.
You could train monkeys to do what most "reporters" do.
And then of course you have the "race to be first", "regardless of accuracy"
issue which seems to blight everyone in the field.
Followed by the whole break down of any ethics.
This thread and the fact that people on here were (jokingly) posting
(false) information and photos on the basis the media looks at this
forum says so much about the media it is not funny.
And finally, re accuracy, years ago, research took a while as you had
to use books. Now, it takes 10 seconds to check the facts and / or
cross reference something. Yet the standard of media is getting worse
even though tools are better.
Anyway, just my HO.
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I agree. Standards aint what they are.
It is also a case of paying peanuts to get minkeys.
Time constraints play their part, fewer staff, more to do.
I work as a freelancer in a broadcast job at present. It is a job I did a decade ago as a staffer. On a morning shift I had 5 people in my team. People to check this, check that, I could send reporters out....I had 10 most days later in the shift. I could get them to spend a long time on stories. I had a team of 3 just to cover football stories.
Now 10 years on, at the same company, to do that job, plus writing web based stories, checking social media etc, there is just me. If I am lucky, 3 days a week, I have a reporter. A kid straight out of university who I have to train to get the job done.
My story is not unique. I hope my standards don't slip. I can't speak for others.
One a typical day, I could have my reporter at court, then on to interview a football manager, then onto a business story.
There is no excuse for not being on the ball. Excuses or not, sometimes things go wrong.
It is also a case of paying peanuts to get minkeys.
Time constraints play their part, fewer staff, more to do.
I work as a freelancer in a broadcast job at present. It is a job I did a decade ago as a staffer. On a morning shift I had 5 people in my team. People to check this, check that, I could send reporters out....I had 10 most days later in the shift. I could get them to spend a long time on stories. I had a team of 3 just to cover football stories.
Now 10 years on, at the same company, to do that job, plus writing web based stories, checking social media etc, there is just me. If I am lucky, 3 days a week, I have a reporter. A kid straight out of university who I have to train to get the job done.
My story is not unique. I hope my standards don't slip. I can't speak for others.
One a typical day, I could have my reporter at court, then on to interview a football manager, then onto a business story.
There is no excuse for not being on the ball. Excuses or not, sometimes things go wrong.
Coff #21,
#13 after enlightenment.
I may seem strange,
but I wonder if the little bugger could get away with it. If only it could lift some serious weight.
Smudge
#13 after enlightenment.
I may seem strange,
but I wonder if the little bugger could get away with it. If only it could lift some serious weight.Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 28th Aug 2013 at 20:54.
Tyne,
Thanks so much for your input. In a way, funny how cuts are the same and having the same detrimental effect everywhere.
So many here have repeatedly said, "why not get it proof red by someone who knows?" So, time to stump up. Who is willing to offer an impartial, but informed review of journos' drafts. Take out the obvious bloomers and "just plain wrong words".
I will.
Who else?
Thanks so much for your input. In a way, funny how cuts are the same and having the same detrimental effect everywhere.
So many here have repeatedly said, "why not get it proof red by someone who knows?" So, time to stump up. Who is willing to offer an impartial, but informed review of journos' drafts. Take out the obvious bloomers and "just plain wrong words".
I will.
Who else?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Who else?
I'll tackle the Met. nonsenses, but most of my ire will be directed against my former employers re.
BBQ summers,
mild winters,
and ten years cool wet summers before this summer.
Mrs LB was on the team working on Long Range Forecasts in 1959 [sic]. She is right when she says that no progress has been made despite computer after computer ......... "it is not do-able!"
Quite.
I'll tackle the Met. nonsenses, but most of my ire will be directed against my former employers re.
BBQ summers,
mild winters,
and ten years cool wet summers before this summer.
Mrs LB was on the team working on Long Range Forecasts in 1959 [sic]. She is right when she says that no progress has been made despite computer after computer ......... "it is not do-able!"
Quite.
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And then of course you have the "race to be first", "regardless of accuracy"
issue which seems to blight everyone in the field.
And finally, re accuracy, years ago, research took a while as you had
to use books. Now, it takes 10 seconds to check the facts and / or
cross reference something. Yet the standard of media is getting worse
even though tools are better.
That's it, you hit the nail on the head 500N. Years ago there was a very personal investment - you had to do the legwork. In the internet age, and more latterly in the day of twatter and book face, the value of the written word has been cheapened. Never mind the old adage "today's news print is tomorrow's" fish supper wrapper - now it's smacking the fishes arse as soon as the submit button has been pressed. In a way we should not be too surprised - how much care do we take with our own musings on PPrune? Or maybe that is just me
Tom
Last edited by TomJoad; 28th Aug 2013 at 21:20. Reason: Because I am an idiot
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Tom
When I wrote that, I was thinking back to Uni and writing Psychology reports
and having to go to the Library for long hours to get a book, read and
photocopy the report, reference it, then hand write your results.
Now, (and I have done this), I just type in the name of the writers and the report name and invariably
I can find a copy on line within 5 minutes of searching. Not only that, but numerous critiques of the report are normally available as well.
I wish I did a degree with what is available to students now,
a lot less book lugging around !!!
When I wrote that, I was thinking back to Uni and writing Psychology reports
and having to go to the Library for long hours to get a book, read and
photocopy the report, reference it, then hand write your results.
Now, (and I have done this), I just type in the name of the writers and the report name and invariably
I can find a copy on line within 5 minutes of searching. Not only that, but numerous critiques of the report are normally available as well.
I wish I did a degree with what is available to students now,
a lot less book lugging around !!!
Last edited by 500N; 28th Aug 2013 at 21:50.
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Tyne, I sympathise as it is frustrating when it feels like being tarred with the same brush and I'm sure there are many journalists (yourself included) who have high professional standards.
This is the self-styled forces paper for 'our boys'. So would it kill em to have a copy of Janes on their desk for comparison of such things before it goes to print. I mean, even if they'd put a picture of an F3, that would at least have been close!
500N said they wouldn't make such mistakes with celebrities, politicians etc and I agree. They'd be afraid of the litigation that followed.
This is the self-styled forces paper for 'our boys'. So would it kill em to have a copy of Janes on their desk for comparison of such things before it goes to print. I mean, even if they'd put a picture of an F3, that would at least have been close!
500N said they wouldn't make such mistakes with celebrities, politicians etc and I agree. They'd be afraid of the litigation that followed.
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500N,
I don't want to keep banging on my my day job on the forum but that is exactly what I keep telling the students. Ask them to do a bit of research and you never get original work never mind anything that has at least had some meaningful scrutiny. We have a generation already in the system that work like that because that is all they know. The frightening thing is that these folk are working within all professional levels. Look at how the various scandals in Health, Social Work, Justice, Parliament etc are explained away with so many words that mean nothing.
I honestly believe that it is a serious affliction - from the so called dodgy dossier to the nonsense that we see in management and the idiotic double speak that infects policy formation within MoD, DPA/DLO and indeed the Services. We are loosing the ability to properly articulate the great issues of the day. God help us - so this is how empires fall! I'm getting old, I need a grumpy meter
I don't want to keep banging on my my day job on the forum but that is exactly what I keep telling the students. Ask them to do a bit of research and you never get original work never mind anything that has at least had some meaningful scrutiny. We have a generation already in the system that work like that because that is all they know. The frightening thing is that these folk are working within all professional levels. Look at how the various scandals in Health, Social Work, Justice, Parliament etc are explained away with so many words that mean nothing.
I honestly believe that it is a serious affliction - from the so called dodgy dossier to the nonsense that we see in management and the idiotic double speak that infects policy formation within MoD, DPA/DLO and indeed the Services. We are loosing the ability to properly articulate the great issues of the day. God help us - so this is how empires fall! I'm getting old, I need a grumpy meter
Last edited by TomJoad; 28th Aug 2013 at 21:45. Reason: Because I'am an idiot.
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Tom
Interesting.
The lecturers had no problem us using quotes etc as long as
1. Our paper wasn't one quote after another, they said they did
want us to put things in our own words and then support it
with a quote.
2. Everything had to be properly referenced at the bottom
of the page. If not, we got our arses kicked, the paper marked
down and if the student did it often enough, they were warned
about Plagiarism.
I don't envy you at all in your job.
I will say (it was said to me many years ago, it's not my original thoughts),
doing a degree makes people (or used to) learn how to research and write a report properly and,
if the lecturers are good, stimulate thinking outside the square. I think it's true.
Interesting.
The lecturers had no problem us using quotes etc as long as
1. Our paper wasn't one quote after another, they said they did
want us to put things in our own words and then support it
with a quote.
2. Everything had to be properly referenced at the bottom
of the page. If not, we got our arses kicked, the paper marked
down and if the student did it often enough, they were warned
about Plagiarism.
I don't envy you at all in your job.
I will say (it was said to me many years ago, it's not my original thoughts),
doing a degree makes people (or used to) learn how to research and write a report properly and,
if the lecturers are good, stimulate thinking outside the square. I think it's true.
Last edited by 500N; 28th Aug 2013 at 21:54.
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Outlaw Pete
"This is the self-styled forces paper for 'our boys'. So would it kill em to have a copy of Janes on their desk for comparison of such things before it goes to print. I mean, even if they'd put a picture of an F3, that would at least have been close!"
Very good observation indeed.
I like the second suggestion re Janes as well.
"This is the self-styled forces paper for 'our boys'. So would it kill em to have a copy of Janes on their desk for comparison of such things before it goes to print. I mean, even if they'd put a picture of an F3, that would at least have been close!"
Very good observation indeed.
I like the second suggestion re Janes as well.
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500N
Yes of course, use of referencing other papers, quotes etc is permitted and of course is necessary. I guess what my complaint is (didn't explain it too well) is that the relevance of the reference material and the scrutiny given is often very shallow. The information is obtained far too easily. There is too much information out there and often little discrimination. Like you, I have often wondered how would I perform undertaking my degree course now. I can't help but think it would be much easier - so many references, aids, forums, computer animations (did engineering) to help explain concepts. Again maybe that is the grumpy old man talking.
Here's a though, In the week of the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King's speech - will we ever see such oratory again. I hope so but I do wonder - it certainly won't come from twitter
PS that's funny twitter came up as PPrune ?
Yes of course, use of referencing other papers, quotes etc is permitted and of course is necessary. I guess what my complaint is (didn't explain it too well) is that the relevance of the reference material and the scrutiny given is often very shallow. The information is obtained far too easily. There is too much information out there and often little discrimination. Like you, I have often wondered how would I perform undertaking my degree course now. I can't help but think it would be much easier - so many references, aids, forums, computer animations (did engineering) to help explain concepts. Again maybe that is the grumpy old man talking.
Here's a though, In the week of the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King's speech - will we ever see such oratory again. I hope so but I do wonder - it certainly won't come from twitter
PS that's funny twitter came up as PPrune ?
Last edited by TomJoad; 28th Aug 2013 at 22:08.
500N,
I don't want to keep banging on my my day job on the forum but that is exactly what I keep telling the students. Ask them to do a bit of research and you never get original work never mind anything that has at least had some meaningful scrutiny. We have a generation already in the system that work like that because that is all they know. The frightening thing is that these folk are working within all professional levels. Look at how the various scandals in Health, Social Work, Justice, Parliament etc are explained away with so many words that mean nothing.
I honestly believe that it is a serious affliction - from the so called dodgy dossier to the nonsense that we see in management and the idiotic double speak that infects policy formation within MoD, DPA/DLO and indeed the Services. We are loosing the ability to properly articulate the great issues of the day. God help us - so this is how empires fall! I'm getting old, I need a grumpy meter
I don't want to keep banging on my my day job on the forum but that is exactly what I keep telling the students. Ask them to do a bit of research and you never get original work never mind anything that has at least had some meaningful scrutiny. We have a generation already in the system that work like that because that is all they know. The frightening thing is that these folk are working within all professional levels. Look at how the various scandals in Health, Social Work, Justice, Parliament etc are explained away with so many words that mean nothing.
I honestly believe that it is a serious affliction - from the so called dodgy dossier to the nonsense that we see in management and the idiotic double speak that infects policy formation within MoD, DPA/DLO and indeed the Services. We are loosing the ability to properly articulate the great issues of the day. God help us - so this is how empires fall! I'm getting old, I need a grumpy meter
What you fail to mention is that it also gives original thinkers and leaders a huge resource to change the world through rational argument. Take your choice...
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LB ...
So that's back to reading the seaweed then
Mrs LB was on the team working on Long Range Forecasts in 1959 [sic]. She is right when she says that no progress has been made despite computer after computer ......... "it is not do-able!"
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Good God man that's what you've been doing wrong all these years ... Tea leaves indeed 
Seaweed
In coastal areas, seaweed is often used as a natural weather forecaster. Kelp, for example, shrivels and feels dry in fine weather, but swells and becomes damp if rain is in the air.
In coastal areas, seaweed is often used as a natural weather forecaster. Kelp, for example, shrivels and feels dry in fine weather, but swells and becomes damp if rain is in the air.