Retention
close the ab-initio route to multi-engine flying and make ME flying a career progression option for FJ and RW pilots. Rather than park ex-FJ and RW pilots as highly-paid OpsOs, FSOs or staff desk jockeys, why not put them in a multi for the last 5-6 years of their career and help them into civvy street at IPP with an affordable (for MoD) pension and a marketable skill?
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 30th Oct 2013 at 16:16.
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Foghorn, just watch this space.
What will hurt the RAF Op capability isn't just the number of our most experienced guys that will go, but the percentage of those remaining. With fleet sizes being much smaller, each aircrew mate that leaves leads to a much bigger dent in output.
What will hurt the RAF Op capability isn't just the number of our most experienced guys that will go, but the percentage of those remaining. With fleet sizes being much smaller, each aircrew mate that leaves leads to a much bigger dent in output.
In spite of being on a war footing for almost 12 years, I am constantly surprised by the number of Wg Cdrs, Gp Capts and 1* promoted in the last couple of years who have had incredibly narrow careers - very limited op tours (enough to get the 'tick'), no MB experience, no Joint tours. Without a doubt, breaking out and doing whacky out-of-branch and, worse, out-of-Service tours can be career killers, and in many cases scuppers any chance of becoming Executive Stream, irrespective of the broadening that such tours engender.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Originally Posted by egdg 
"There is a strong substanciated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!
That kind of leadership isn't going to help retention I fear."
Observe it from the other perspective, if you will..... An unpopular Sqn Ldr may find the 'chaps' play by the rules a little too much in such cases.... Result = More U/S aircraft...... Who's got more to lose, an aspiring Sqn Ldr, or an aspiring SAC ?
"There is a strong substanciated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!
That kind of leadership isn't going to help retention I fear."
Observe it from the other perspective, if you will..... An unpopular Sqn Ldr may find the 'chaps' play by the rules a little too much in such cases.... Result = More U/S aircraft...... Who's got more to lose, an aspiring Sqn Ldr, or an aspiring SAC ?
Photoplanet, if that rumour has been substantiated, then that's bullying pure and simple.
Typical of someone with Small Man Syndrome - who needs to be reported to his superiors.
That sort of attitude is totally unacceptable in the 21st century - he's not some Victorian mill owner.
Typical of someone with Small Man Syndrome - who needs to be reported to his superiors.
That sort of attitude is totally unacceptable in the 21st century - he's not some Victorian mill owner.
Gentleman Aviator
There is a strong substanciated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!
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Photoplanet....post90! Undoubtedly, years ago I had to take a young pilot to one side and point out that if actually wanted to fly that month and not suffer crew-in snag after crew-in snag that he needed to apologise to the young linies who he was extemely curt and rude to the previous week. That way, perhaps they may be able coax his aircraft through a start sucessfully. I couldn't positively prove anything (as I would have acted if I could) but suspected that they were looking harder than usual with a very black/white view on the rules..............
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Every Boss has a Boss to answer to.
Every hangar has a 'behind' to it.
The P1 redress system for bullying and harassment is ineffective. In fact 'harassment' is a legal term and any potential cases are handed to CivPol. Though you have to be a person who is encompassed by a very particular list to get off the start line. Gay, disabled, none-caucasian etc.
I have been the person who by virtue of age, rank, and pension security, fought the corner of the shop floor against a 2.5 bully. Arguably I won, but the fight was a bitter one that I would not embark on again, despite my efforts at including the higher command chain in the battle. The bloke was a nasty piece of work and he is now a civvie. Good riddance.
Every hangar has a 'behind' to it.
The P1 redress system for bullying and harassment is ineffective. In fact 'harassment' is a legal term and any potential cases are handed to CivPol. Though you have to be a person who is encompassed by a very particular list to get off the start line. Gay, disabled, none-caucasian etc.
I have been the person who by virtue of age, rank, and pension security, fought the corner of the shop floor against a 2.5 bully. Arguably I won, but the fight was a bitter one that I would not embark on again, despite my efforts at including the higher command chain in the battle. The bloke was a nasty piece of work and he is now a civvie. Good riddance.
There is a strong substanciated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!
Then if he has enough nouse how to work out how to access this thread, he might realise that his entire sqn think he's a w@nker!
Reference:
"....There is a strong substantiated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!...."
I have the following observation to make, a point which nobody appears to have raised until now. I had the misfortune to meet several senior officers like the aforementioned Sqn Ldr during my time in the RAF. The only difference between them and him, is that at least he is being honest - and telling the troops to their face - rather than only showing his true colours later. They can't say they don't know where they stand with him!
Not that I'm saying his behaviour is in any way excusable you understand, before anyone has a "go" at me!
"....There is a strong substantiated rumour of a Sqn Ldr at a double digit ISTAR Sqn taking his troops aside and telling them, and I quote '....if you cross me I will destroy you'. A room full of Officers and SNCOs and he says that to them!!...."
I have the following observation to make, a point which nobody appears to have raised until now. I had the misfortune to meet several senior officers like the aforementioned Sqn Ldr during my time in the RAF. The only difference between them and him, is that at least he is being honest - and telling the troops to their face - rather than only showing his true colours later. They can't say they don't know where they stand with him!
Not that I'm saying his behaviour is in any way excusable you understand, before anyone has a "go" at me!
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Committing the ultimate sin here of trying to stop thread creep...
Going back to the original point of the thread, there have been a few posts on here discussing how a first tourist who is doing his ATPL should just bugger off to the airlines as he clearly doesn't want to be in the RAF. Which would be a fair comment, except there are now Sqn's where not doing your ATPL as a first tourist makes you the exception. And these are people who have no pension to look forward too until they are 68, or whatever the retirement age is when they retire...
Going back to the original point of the thread, there have been a few posts on here discussing how a first tourist who is doing his ATPL should just bugger off to the airlines as he clearly doesn't want to be in the RAF. Which would be a fair comment, except there are now Sqn's where not doing your ATPL as a first tourist makes you the exception. And these are people who have no pension to look forward too until they are 68, or whatever the retirement age is when they retire...
A year or thereabouts before we secured the vastly superior military accreditation for civil pilot licences, as compared with the current dumbed-down nonsense thanks to 22Gp, people were studying in crewrooms or at home during non-flying times and leaving in large numbers. I recall one Dining-In Night at Brize at which 8 pilots were dined out for airline jobs....
Then came the 'proper' military accreditiation which had the desired retention result - and of course people still had sensible pension rights at ORD/NRD. We also had rather more varied flying to enjoy. We still had the option of QFI-ing at a UAS, for example - and the creeping cancer of contractorisation had yet to appear on the scene. In addition, there were rather more military aerodromes in the UK to which people could be posted.
Now there is virtually NO military accreditation, the RAF cannot seem to think outside the sandpit, pensions have been savaged, aerodromes have been closed and flying is become both rarer and more groundhog day in nature.
So it's hardly surprising that ATPL studies will dominate crewroom activity and that people will leave as soon as they can....
Then came the 'proper' military accreditiation which had the desired retention result - and of course people still had sensible pension rights at ORD/NRD. We also had rather more varied flying to enjoy. We still had the option of QFI-ing at a UAS, for example - and the creeping cancer of contractorisation had yet to appear on the scene. In addition, there were rather more military aerodromes in the UK to which people could be posted.
Now there is virtually NO military accreditation, the RAF cannot seem to think outside the sandpit, pensions have been savaged, aerodromes have been closed and flying is become both rarer and more groundhog day in nature.
So it's hardly surprising that ATPL studies will dominate crewroom activity and that people will leave as soon as they can....
Speaking of retention, I've just heard from a 3rd source (well, 3rd person who'd heard it independently) that following poor uptake of PAS last year, there's a new FRI being tabled, possibly before the assimilation board sits in January.
Anyone with ears closer to HQ than me heard anything...?
Anyone with ears closer to HQ than me heard anything...?
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Well, this is a rumour site........
Having been told of Desk Officers using terms such as 'demographic cliff' wrt future manning then it could be a wise move. It might even be a case of shutting the stable door before the horses have all bolted.
Having been told of Desk Officers using terms such as 'demographic cliff' wrt future manning then it could be a wise move. It might even be a case of shutting the stable door before the horses have all bolted.
Can the RAF just elect to go ahead with an FRI?
Doesn't it require AFPRB recommendation and treasury approval? Both of which would surely create a certain amount of inevitable bureaucratic delay.
Doesn't it require AFPRB recommendation and treasury approval? Both of which would surely create a certain amount of inevitable bureaucratic delay.
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I believe that ultimately new FRIs have to be approved by the Treasury. You can bet in these austere times they will demand significant evidence to prove the need. Would the large number of PA offers made to JO pilots in January and associated lack of uptake be enough?