What Price your Service?
Thread Starter
What Price your Service?
This came up at work in a crewroom chat the other day, and the NEM thread brought it back to the front of my mind. Very much the stuff of crewroom chats this but my current unit has a small crewroom so I thought I'd throw it out to a wider audience 
Literally, what price would ensure your service for a bit longer if FRIs were put back on the table?
We all agree to certain things within the length of our commissions or engagements, but right now I don't see many people planning on sticking it out for a long career. I know maybe 3 people who're planning on staying in past their next option point, and they've probably not seen the NEM details yet! I know more people now than any point in my career waiting for a PVR exit date or getting ducks in a line before leaving.
Everyone who was offered PAS that I know turned it down, unless they were already stuck in a ROS. Even people on the cusp of promotion are sorting out CVs and considering other options, and why wouldn't they with the NEM revelations? Service only possible to maybe 48 instead of 55, in conjunction with the pension shifting to 60, and the service being able to make you redundant with 12 months notice. I think most people would rather be hunting for that second career on their terms at 38 (post-option) or 35 (post-PVR) rather than unexpectedly at 46!
So even the thrusters on my squadron who were hoping for a good show in November are thinking about leaving, and I presume the situation will be the same in a lot of places. So if Manning came round now and asked you to write your own cheque for a 5 year or longer ROS, what would it be?
Would you stay for 9 years like USAF fighter guys, for $250k, half now and half added to your salary for the period? Would you stay 5 years for a salary boost of £30k per year? Would you need a huge lump sum?
Or would you be another one for whom you can't put a cost on it; and the changes to our conditions simply don't make it worthwhile anymore?
Literally, what price would ensure your service for a bit longer if FRIs were put back on the table?
We all agree to certain things within the length of our commissions or engagements, but right now I don't see many people planning on sticking it out for a long career. I know maybe 3 people who're planning on staying in past their next option point, and they've probably not seen the NEM details yet! I know more people now than any point in my career waiting for a PVR exit date or getting ducks in a line before leaving.
Everyone who was offered PAS that I know turned it down, unless they were already stuck in a ROS. Even people on the cusp of promotion are sorting out CVs and considering other options, and why wouldn't they with the NEM revelations? Service only possible to maybe 48 instead of 55, in conjunction with the pension shifting to 60, and the service being able to make you redundant with 12 months notice. I think most people would rather be hunting for that second career on their terms at 38 (post-option) or 35 (post-PVR) rather than unexpectedly at 46!
So even the thrusters on my squadron who were hoping for a good show in November are thinking about leaving, and I presume the situation will be the same in a lot of places. So if Manning came round now and asked you to write your own cheque for a 5 year or longer ROS, what would it be?
Would you stay for 9 years like USAF fighter guys, for $250k, half now and half added to your salary for the period? Would you stay 5 years for a salary boost of £30k per year? Would you need a huge lump sum?
Or would you be another one for whom you can't put a cost on it; and the changes to our conditions simply don't make it worthwhile anymore?
An assignment system that keeps its promises. Family stability for at least 5 years without career fouling me for not being willing to move every 16 - 18 months.
What Price your Service?
5f6b.
I often try to put a number on it myself without adopting the Dr Evil approach: "10 trillion dollars!"
The answer I often reach is somewhere close to six figures after tax as a Flt Lt. If they just brought back the recently deceased one it'd probably do the job to be honest. I wait with baited breath.
BV
I often try to put a number on it myself without adopting the Dr Evil approach: "10 trillion dollars!"
The answer I often reach is somewhere close to six figures after tax as a Flt Lt. If they just brought back the recently deceased one it'd probably do the job to be honest. I wait with baited breath.
BV
Thread Starter
No, I wouldn't say it is, Flight Idle. However, when harmony guidelines are broken left right and centre, pensions are messed around with, goalposts are moved, and the service takes steps (see the NEM thread) to ensure we're more disposable than ever, there are those who'd need to frankly be paid to endure any longer than they need to!
So we don't do it for the money. But personally I wouldn't stay in for more of the same plus greater uncertainty, with all of the carrots associated with a longer career slowly being removed.
The biggest differences between now and the old days are probably that you were more valued, had proper career management, could rely on your pension being what you were promised when you joined, etc etc.
So we don't do it for the money. But personally I wouldn't stay in for more of the same plus greater uncertainty, with all of the carrots associated with a longer career slowly being removed.
The biggest differences between now and the old days are probably that you were more valued, had proper career management, could rely on your pension being what you were promised when you joined, etc etc.
What Price your Service?
Flight Idle.
If we're all brutally honest when was it ever not about the money? Maybe you lived through a halcyon era when everyone did what they did purely for love of queen and country.
Or more likely you did your service during a time when houses were cheap and mortgages were ten a penny. The reality now is that constant moves to undesirable (or more likely unaffordable) parts of the country mean that money is more important than ever. I get fairly sick of people from the generation ahead of me bragging about how they made x pounds on each move they made and now can't decide between the Georgian country estate or the London townhouse. I bought a house at each of my first two bases and haven't made a penny. In fact I've probably lost money.
So after that potentially unwarranted rant I'd say of course it's about the f@&$ing money!
BV
If we're all brutally honest when was it ever not about the money? Maybe you lived through a halcyon era when everyone did what they did purely for love of queen and country.
Or more likely you did your service during a time when houses were cheap and mortgages were ten a penny. The reality now is that constant moves to undesirable (or more likely unaffordable) parts of the country mean that money is more important than ever. I get fairly sick of people from the generation ahead of me bragging about how they made x pounds on each move they made and now can't decide between the Georgian country estate or the London townhouse. I bought a house at each of my first two bases and haven't made a penny. In fact I've probably lost money.
So after that potentially unwarranted rant I'd say of course it's about the f@&$ing money!
BV
Tricky question, but worth considering. Unlike BV (maybe I'm older) I did join during a period where it wasn't about the money. Unfortunately I've got older and a bit cynical, I hear the VSOs stating that people our most important asset and then seem to allow all sorts of anti-people policies, plans and transformations to be enacted that just devalue the individual further. I feel I have watched a career become a job. And with a job comes no need for loyalty, to or from the "company"; sadly then the money and the perks do take a much greater priority.
Sadly I've only got a few years left so "they" don't have to pay me anything to keep me. What would I like to see for those younger than I? Well the list is long and doesn't include pay, but then I think we had a huge long topic about the "perks" a couple of years ago!
Sadly I've only got a few years left so "they" don't have to pay me anything to keep me. What would I like to see for those younger than I? Well the list is long and doesn't include pay, but then I think we had a huge long topic about the "perks" a couple of years ago!
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 29th Jul 2013 at 06:51.
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Like many, I'd happily stay and see out a full career if the perks were still there, and I could genuinely believe the "people are our greatest asset" stuff. But, presumably like 5F6B, when all those perks go, I feel like going too.
Thinking about how much they'd have to pay me to stay doesn't mean it's all about the pay, but it's interesting to think how much you'd take to stay when the perks, pension fun, and security are all gon, cut, or on the chopping block!
Personally, if they paid me an FRI of anything less than £75k they'd only be making up the difference between the AFPS75 payout I thought was getting and the AFPS75/15 one I am getting. At my option point, it'd have to be six figures net plus a salary uplift to make me look past the slashed pension, the disappearing allowances, 9 hours a month, and the diminishing chance of a full career.
I might look at something that generates a return of service. Or can they get rid of me with a year's notice even if I'm barred from PVRing due to one?
Thinking about how much they'd have to pay me to stay doesn't mean it's all about the pay, but it's interesting to think how much you'd take to stay when the perks, pension fun, and security are all gon, cut, or on the chopping block!
Personally, if they paid me an FRI of anything less than £75k they'd only be making up the difference between the AFPS75 payout I thought was getting and the AFPS75/15 one I am getting. At my option point, it'd have to be six figures net plus a salary uplift to make me look past the slashed pension, the disappearing allowances, 9 hours a month, and the diminishing chance of a full career.
I might look at something that generates a return of service. Or can they get rid of me with a year's notice even if I'm barred from PVRing due to one?
