NEM Roadshows
Do we even have contracts?
I presume that existing commissions etc are fine, as JTO intimated, newly promoted Sqn Ldrs will still get to serve until 55 instead of LOS30. However, the pension changes are what they are, and I should imagine your engagement length doesn't mean you'll be protected from summary redundancy in the future.
I presume that existing commissions etc are fine, as JTO intimated, newly promoted Sqn Ldrs will still get to serve until 55 instead of LOS30. However, the pension changes are what they are, and I should imagine your engagement length doesn't mean you'll be protected from summary redundancy in the future.
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Harrier 123 - no - you will remain on your current engagement. If after 1 Apr 2015 you get promoted then you will switch to the new structures (what that is depends on your current rank). It will be in by 1 Apr 2015 in order to meet the new Pension scheme (they compliment each other). I think redundancy, after Apr 15 switches to AFRS 15 (3 months pay with 12 months notice I think but could be wrong)
Party Animal - what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street. Where can there be legal challenge
Teeteringhead - the brief is largely joint and caters for all 3 Services. The main differences are in the Engagement structures element which is single Service. NEM needs to be joint and take into account vagaries and inconsistencies between all 3 Services in an effort to try and iron them out. If we don't it makes the offer inefficient. I like your typically cynical ARMY blah, but at the moment the RAF is well ahead in terms of engagement with its personnel, and consequently we are providing the majority of the responses to the survey - seems to me to be RAF rather than Army, even more so when considering that the majority of the Army cant string a sentence together and have a reading age of 4 I would say we are in a fairly good position.
Implementation of NEM starts from Apr 2015 to coincide with the pension changes, so the revised engagement structures have to be sealed by then. Pay structure by 2016, HPI I think by late 15/early 16 and other role on from there. Not all into effect in one go but it has to be balanced against JPA changes which inevitably can take time.
Unclenelli your points are a bit misleading. PTW is quite a good thing if they ever get the fine detail sorted; by selection, not necessarily effect harmony if managed correctly, and there shouldn't be gapped posts. SLA/SFA not necessarily increase by 20%, and the 50% discount is misleading as a discount hasn't been decided. A recent brief mentioned that OR SFA probably wont change as they are very comparable to local housing authority prices (due to their size), but consequently officer SFA may, prices set by AFPRB who will require some convincing I can imagine as they have linked price increases with quality increase. The Reserves context you mention is what happened now when you go to ADC terms, I gather that the new construct is looking at how the disadvantages of reserve service can be ameliorated and thus enable the movement between the 2 constructs. Finally the pension aspect is interesting; remember you still have your preserved rights at age 55 due to your current scheme (if AFPS 75 like me) and it was briefed that they are working on the calculator to show an actuarially reduced pension between 55-60.
Whenurhappy - read IBN 22/13 as it has all the dates for briefs. I can see that they are about 60% through now already.
Party Animal - what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street. Where can there be legal challenge
Teeteringhead - the brief is largely joint and caters for all 3 Services. The main differences are in the Engagement structures element which is single Service. NEM needs to be joint and take into account vagaries and inconsistencies between all 3 Services in an effort to try and iron them out. If we don't it makes the offer inefficient. I like your typically cynical ARMY blah, but at the moment the RAF is well ahead in terms of engagement with its personnel, and consequently we are providing the majority of the responses to the survey - seems to me to be RAF rather than Army, even more so when considering that the majority of the Army cant string a sentence together and have a reading age of 4 I would say we are in a fairly good position.
Implementation of NEM starts from Apr 2015 to coincide with the pension changes, so the revised engagement structures have to be sealed by then. Pay structure by 2016, HPI I think by late 15/early 16 and other role on from there. Not all into effect in one go but it has to be balanced against JPA changes which inevitably can take time.
Unclenelli your points are a bit misleading. PTW is quite a good thing if they ever get the fine detail sorted; by selection, not necessarily effect harmony if managed correctly, and there shouldn't be gapped posts. SLA/SFA not necessarily increase by 20%, and the 50% discount is misleading as a discount hasn't been decided. A recent brief mentioned that OR SFA probably wont change as they are very comparable to local housing authority prices (due to their size), but consequently officer SFA may, prices set by AFPRB who will require some convincing I can imagine as they have linked price increases with quality increase. The Reserves context you mention is what happened now when you go to ADC terms, I gather that the new construct is looking at how the disadvantages of reserve service can be ameliorated and thus enable the movement between the 2 constructs. Finally the pension aspect is interesting; remember you still have your preserved rights at age 55 due to your current scheme (if AFPS 75 like me) and it was briefed that they are working on the calculator to show an actuarially reduced pension between 55-60.
Whenurhappy - read IBN 22/13 as it has all the dates for briefs. I can see that they are about 60% through now already.
Thanks Junket. I am diaspora of the RAF diaspora - no access to DII (or JPA now) and my feeds from IPP have dried up, so I haven't seen the Internal Briefing Note. I'll speak to my very distant non-support unit to see if they could send me an abstract of the dates...
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Whenurhappy, dates left as follows
31 July benson, 1/2 Aug Odiham, 5-7 Aug Brize, 8 Aug Northolt, 9 Aug Halton
I understand that the diaspora will receive a DVD of a filmed presentation in the near future, and it will also be on Airspace along with the script and PowerPoint slides
31 July benson, 1/2 Aug Odiham, 5-7 Aug Brize, 8 Aug Northolt, 9 Aug Halton
I understand that the diaspora will receive a DVD of a filmed presentation in the near future, and it will also be on Airspace along with the script and PowerPoint slides
Wow - that was quick! Sadly I'll be missing all of them as I am moving this week back to the UK to be administered by that well-known RAF unit, HMS Nelson...
I look forward to the DVD now!
I look forward to the DVD now!
Junket quote " what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street".
You miss the whole point of military service for many service personel. There is a natural tie-in with long term security of employment and the acceptance of the real risks of military work and limited salary. This link looks likely to be sacrificed. I accept that chiselers on a greasy pole might not empathise with that opinion but, it was a reason for many to sign-up in the past!
OAP
You miss the whole point of military service for many service personel. There is a natural tie-in with long term security of employment and the acceptance of the real risks of military work and limited salary. This link looks likely to be sacrificed. I accept that chiselers on a greasy pole might not empathise with that opinion but, it was a reason for many to sign-up in the past!
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I have no problems with accepting private sector redundancy terms as long as I have the right to hand in one month's notice.
Will this become enforceable for those on 75 pensions past 2015 and is this some form of cynical means of cutting the pensions bill for those of us who have fought and supported ops for the past 12 years and deserved them? Any grandfather rights in other words?
Will this become enforceable for those on 75 pensions past 2015 and is this some form of cynical means of cutting the pensions bill for those of us who have fought and supported ops for the past 12 years and deserved them? Any grandfather rights in other words?
what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street. Where can there be legal challenge
If the govt decide to make drastic cuts to RAF numbers, then inevitably redundancies will occur. However, the 12 months notice under NEM sounds like Manning will be able to pick and choose at will individuals who may be very good at their job but in an unfortunate timing position based on fleets they are associated with. For example, those who happened to be in the Jaguar/F3/Harrier/Sentinel/Nimrod/VC10 world may be given short notice that their services are no longer required despite exemplary records of service and a piece of paper that says they will be employed for 22 years / age 55 etc.
Constant comparisons with civvy street miss the fact completely that we are an armed force who needs to have an agreed level of commitment that works both ways. Otherwise, next time I'm sent to war, I may choose to say 'no' as I've decided to leave next month.
Most civvies are not employed on defined contracted periods. Those that are expect to be paid for the length of the contract, which if terminated prematurely often results in legal cases or significantly more than 3 months pay off. Bottom line is that NEM suggests that signing on for an agreed period of time is in effect meaningless or totally worthless.
Glad to say I'll be gone before all these changes take effect but it is certainly a changing world.
Gentleman Aviator
- seems to me to be RAF rather than Army, even more so when considering that the majority of the Army cant string a sentence together and have a reading age of 4 I would say we are in a fairly good position.
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OAP, Vin Rouge and PA - I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think many joining the military now are doing so because it is a fairly attractive job, from which they will gain some good skills and will then move when the time is right for them. I really don't think that the job for life concept is prevalent in the minds of our younger joiners, both airman and officers.
Personally I would wish for better redundancy payouts and have said so in the NEM survey when commenting about the manpower control measures. I can see the utility (to the Service) in having better MCMs as having come from Manning not so long ago the current suite of measures is now ineffective. From what I have seen of NEM they will look to retain skilled personnel where they can as they mention a few times about the cost of retaining being far less than recruiting and training personnel. Will be interesting to see how they develop the measures.
Personally I would wish for better redundancy payouts and have said so in the NEM survey when commenting about the manpower control measures. I can see the utility (to the Service) in having better MCMs as having come from Manning not so long ago the current suite of measures is now ineffective. From what I have seen of NEM they will look to retain skilled personnel where they can as they mention a few times about the cost of retaining being far less than recruiting and training personnel. Will be interesting to see how they develop the measures.
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Had our first roadshow at the secret Oxford super base today and it was better than I expected. I'll answer any burning question if I can...
Without being a ****, can you give us a precis of the brief, specifically any subtle differences to what we've heard on here.
In many ways, for most of us, this is a case of not knowing what we don't know.
In many ways, for most of us, this is a case of not knowing what we don't know.
Does anyone know if the NEM briefings will ever make it to the Diaspora?
Frankly if you mentioned NEM to people round here, you'd get a blank look back at you wondering why you wanted a copy of a music magazine.
Frankly if you mentioned NEM to people round here, you'd get a blank look back at you wondering why you wanted a copy of a music magazine.
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The roadshow is totally scripted, the better part is the open forum for questions at the end. The key message taken is to do the online survey else we'll end up with a half-a###d solution which will be as popular as PAYD (which the people who bothered with the surveys said we apparently wanted!). There is only 1 pot of money so must all be equal in the end so no miracle cure of being able to afford everything.
For those unable to attend a briefing I believe a video will be made a available at some point. Expect a raft of information in the (near) future as parts of NEM to be introduced next year and gradually more stages each year until 2017, all in before 2020.
For those unable to attend a briefing I believe a video will be made a available at some point. Expect a raft of information in the (near) future as parts of NEM to be introduced next year and gradually more stages each year until 2017, all in before 2020.
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Melchett - it depends what part of the diaspora you are in. Cyprus has been briefed and there has been some consultation there. Same with Falklands last week. Belgium/NATO being done in September. As for briefings, there has been a DVD recorded of a brief at Marham I gather, which in understand will be on the streets in the next week or so.
Downsizer - 2 MCMs being proposed. First is Standing flexible something. Basically 12 months notice based upon similar terms (for selection) for redundancy. Meant to cover a capability reduction or sudden requirement to save a pot of money. Adds to the various manpower levers we have. You also get compensated on redundancy terms. The second is a career review, so the example used was they offer you 10 years, but review at say 5 and decide whether to keep you on. Briefer seemed to say that standing flexible was the preferred and very similar to what we have now under redundancy schemes, but could be used under set rules and criteria.
Alfred - I have heard the brief a couple of times now. Scripted to ensure consistency across all of the briefings, but many themes consistent with what I have written on here. Main aspect I got was the urgency to get the new engagement structures right as they have to implemented by 1 Apr 15 to meet new pension scheme. New pay model for jnr ranks (no high/low pay band or flip/flop etc), getting rid of AIPs and bringing in trade supplements to reward specialist training and responsibilities etc Accn deal to help us get a property, so an enhanced LSAP to about 50% of salary. Better geographic stability, in the main for ORs, but should impact on officer cadre (to an extent). Best bit was the Q&A, in particular the level of response from the 2 scribbly Gp Capts (one AIR and responsible for this and the other in NEM team) and the Sqn Ldr, who works for one of the Gp Capts, tended to be very good
Downsizer - 2 MCMs being proposed. First is Standing flexible something. Basically 12 months notice based upon similar terms (for selection) for redundancy. Meant to cover a capability reduction or sudden requirement to save a pot of money. Adds to the various manpower levers we have. You also get compensated on redundancy terms. The second is a career review, so the example used was they offer you 10 years, but review at say 5 and decide whether to keep you on. Briefer seemed to say that standing flexible was the preferred and very similar to what we have now under redundancy schemes, but could be used under set rules and criteria.
Alfred - I have heard the brief a couple of times now. Scripted to ensure consistency across all of the briefings, but many themes consistent with what I have written on here. Main aspect I got was the urgency to get the new engagement structures right as they have to implemented by 1 Apr 15 to meet new pension scheme. New pay model for jnr ranks (no high/low pay band or flip/flop etc), getting rid of AIPs and bringing in trade supplements to reward specialist training and responsibilities etc Accn deal to help us get a property, so an enhanced LSAP to about 50% of salary. Better geographic stability, in the main for ORs, but should impact on officer cadre (to an extent). Best bit was the Q&A, in particular the level of response from the 2 scribbly Gp Capts (one AIR and responsible for this and the other in NEM team) and the Sqn Ldr, who works for one of the Gp Capts, tended to be very good
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Apologies, posted my offer then duty called. Thanks again junket, you've largely covered the key points that were in our brief yesterday.
The 'LSAP on steroids' as the Gp Capt referred to it will be roughly half of salary capped to £25k. So for Sgts it was £15006 for some reason. Loan would be interest free, and as I understand it, you retain the right to SFA. However you would probably be expected to live in it, if it was within a reasonable distance to base (ten miles was quoted).
I asked whether the trade supplements would be pensionable (they are) and would specialist pay also be pensionable (no chance) were the replies.
The unlocking of pension not possible on AFPS75 because it is actually a pension, but ok under newer schemes because it is an Early Depature payment instead.
The manning stuff was as junket has stated, but apparently these powers already exist under QRs but are very rarely used.
Flying branch officers and NCA have slightly different engagement lengths based on completion of first OCU. I have details if any one wants them.
Officers I believe get signed on to EDP point and sgts to 12 years, and if signed on at 12 to LOS 30. Existing contracts are to be honoured with people being brought onto NEM ones when signed on or promoted.
SFA & SLA to remain a key part of the offer and no one is too be excluded based on time in service I.e. the first eight years stuff we have been hearing. Rents based on national average with a roughly 50% discount applied, more so if accommodation not up to grade one standard.
Hope this helps.
The 'LSAP on steroids' as the Gp Capt referred to it will be roughly half of salary capped to £25k. So for Sgts it was £15006 for some reason. Loan would be interest free, and as I understand it, you retain the right to SFA. However you would probably be expected to live in it, if it was within a reasonable distance to base (ten miles was quoted).
I asked whether the trade supplements would be pensionable (they are) and would specialist pay also be pensionable (no chance) were the replies.
The unlocking of pension not possible on AFPS75 because it is actually a pension, but ok under newer schemes because it is an Early Depature payment instead.
The manning stuff was as junket has stated, but apparently these powers already exist under QRs but are very rarely used.
Flying branch officers and NCA have slightly different engagement lengths based on completion of first OCU. I have details if any one wants them.
Officers I believe get signed on to EDP point and sgts to 12 years, and if signed on at 12 to LOS 30. Existing contracts are to be honoured with people being brought onto NEM ones when signed on or promoted.
SFA & SLA to remain a key part of the offer and no one is too be excluded based on time in service I.e. the first eight years stuff we have been hearing. Rents based on national average with a roughly 50% discount applied, more so if accommodation not up to grade one standard.
Hope this helps.
Junket,
I'm definitely out of the mainstream, and probably even out of the mainstream diaspora at the moment in a UK based tri-service unit where there hasn't been a sniff of anything to do with NEM. Indeed, the vast majority of what I've come across in the past year or so on pensions, NEM etc has all been through PPrune!
I'm definitely out of the mainstream, and probably even out of the mainstream diaspora at the moment in a UK based tri-service unit where there hasn't been a sniff of anything to do with NEM. Indeed, the vast majority of what I've come across in the past year or so on pensions, NEM etc has all been through PPrune!