Why no royals in fast jets?
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I would suggest that the role of FJ pilot requires 100% focus on the task
A and C = Tw@
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F4TCT
For what it's worth I spent 10 years in the RAF and wasn't good enough to fly fast jets and my destiny was multi-engine and subsequently ATC but that's another story.....
As for your prejudiced attitude about members of the Royal Family in the Armed Services I can only say that my impression of HRH Prince Andrew as a pilot in the FAA is a very positive one.
1. After the Falklands War (when he was a Sea King co-pilot, principally flying anti-submarine missions) he trained as a Lynx pilot and was embarked on HMS Broadsword. Early 1985 he had an engine failure whilst flying near Stanley and made a single-engine precautionary landing which he and single crewman dealt with very successfully. (The naval Lynx is multi-role and is flown by a single pilot.)
2. After an engine change in-situ he flew it out and back to his ship.
3. A few days later a spare engine was flown in to Stanley by Hercules (to replace the one that had been used) and this was prepared as an under-slung load to be flown out to Broadsword. By the time this was ready to go it was getting dark and the wind in the FI's is seldom light and the sea state seldom calm. This didn't stop HRH again flying in to collect said load and taking it back to mother.
To me that all takes a fair amount of skill, and for which I am prepared to respect his ability as a pilot and one who then was perhaps just 25 years old. He was responsible for a valuable aircraft, his crewman and operating in a very un-forgiving environment.
Only a small percentage of people can claim to have the potential aptitude to be a military pilot, the training is tough, it lasts for up to three years and many fail along the way......HRH's Andrew, William and Harry all should be treated with greater respect and perversely, in many ways their background makes it tougher to succeed than for "ordinary" trainees, as they are all in the spotlight and everyone is expecting them to screw-up.
As J F Kennedy said
For of those to whom much is given, much is required...... 
MB
As for your prejudiced attitude about members of the Royal Family in the Armed Services I can only say that my impression of HRH Prince Andrew as a pilot in the FAA is a very positive one.
1. After the Falklands War (when he was a Sea King co-pilot, principally flying anti-submarine missions) he trained as a Lynx pilot and was embarked on HMS Broadsword. Early 1985 he had an engine failure whilst flying near Stanley and made a single-engine precautionary landing which he and single crewman dealt with very successfully. (The naval Lynx is multi-role and is flown by a single pilot.)
2. After an engine change in-situ he flew it out and back to his ship.
3. A few days later a spare engine was flown in to Stanley by Hercules (to replace the one that had been used) and this was prepared as an under-slung load to be flown out to Broadsword. By the time this was ready to go it was getting dark and the wind in the FI's is seldom light and the sea state seldom calm. This didn't stop HRH again flying in to collect said load and taking it back to mother.
To me that all takes a fair amount of skill, and for which I am prepared to respect his ability as a pilot and one who then was perhaps just 25 years old. He was responsible for a valuable aircraft, his crewman and operating in a very un-forgiving environment.
Only a small percentage of people can claim to have the potential aptitude to be a military pilot, the training is tough, it lasts for up to three years and many fail along the way......HRH's Andrew, William and Harry all should be treated with greater respect and perversely, in many ways their background makes it tougher to succeed than for "ordinary" trainees, as they are all in the spotlight and everyone is expecting them to screw-up.
As J F Kennedy said
For of those to whom much is given, much is required...... MB
There is a world of difference coming off the back of a carrier in a Sea King at night at say a walking speed and doodling up to 200' and then bimbling along at 90kts for miles before automatically transitioning down "hands off" ...as a two pilot crew to the hover, AND
Going from o to 200kts, pulling "X" G, finding you are 50 feet off the oggin passing thru 300kts doing everything yourself 'cos you are on your own.
It takes a special type of application (to be polite to all aviators) to the task to stay alive.
Jet Jocks have always been the elite aviators for obvious reasons.
Not to say there are scary moments in SS9, maintaining station over a submarine mast, connected to it via a wire and trying to recover an injured sailor, pitch black....but it only accounts for about 20% of your total time in scare mode.
Jet jocks must be 60% plus ........
Going from o to 200kts, pulling "X" G, finding you are 50 feet off the oggin passing thru 300kts doing everything yourself 'cos you are on your own.
It takes a special type of application (to be polite to all aviators) to the task to stay alive.
Jet Jocks have always been the elite aviators for obvious reasons.
Not to say there are scary moments in SS9, maintaining station over a submarine mast, connected to it via a wire and trying to recover an injured sailor, pitch black....but it only accounts for about 20% of your total time in scare mode.
Jet jocks must be 60% plus ........
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 25th Jul 2013 at 13:16.
your total time in scare mode
Jet jocks must be 60% plus ........
Jet jocks must be 60% plus ........
If it was they would be gibbering wrecks in days/weeks. Mind you, that does come to explain a few things.
As recent photographs have shown, Prince William is a spectacle-wearer, depending on the prescription this may be easier on rotary than FJ - HUDs etc.
Apparently he also has very slightly defective colour vision - as did his mother - which might also be a factor. And some colour deficiency problems are I believe exacerbated by altitude or low partial O2 pressure.
Apparently he also has very slightly defective colour vision - as did his mother - which might also be a factor. And some colour deficiency problems are I believe exacerbated by altitude or low partial O2 pressure.
I do recall HRH's eyesight being quietly mentioned at the time of his initial RAF service (At the time where he was spending time with the Navy and the RAF to learn about the other services).
Why no royals in fast jets?
Why do threads like this always turn into willy waving contests? Rotary and FJ flying each have their own unique challenges. I'm a 2300 hr FJ pilot but I have ultimate respect for the rotary chaps and the job they do. In some respects flying FJs is harder but in others helicopters are harder. Landing under fire or pulling someone off a deck at night is probably equally as scary as watching AAA come up to you at night. I've personally never experienced either. There's not a single part of me that would suggest I'm more 'elite' than a rotary mate. Better looking perhaps but that's irrelevant to this conversation.
As to the Royals I say never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. William and Harry are closer to my age so I identify more with them than Charles and Andrew (although I've met both of the older ones and their Dad) and I'd say they appear to be doing a bloody good job.
BV
As to the Royals I say never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. William and Harry are closer to my age so I identify more with them than Charles and Andrew (although I've met both of the older ones and their Dad) and I'd say they appear to be doing a bloody good job.
BV
Last edited by Bob Viking; 25th Jul 2013 at 13:38.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Then if you count Mountbatten then you should also include Prince Michael of Kent and the Duke Kent. That would make 7.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
I thought because they were all reasonably "handsome" (well, at least when they were young!) they were getting all the good looking birds anyway, so they didn't need to be FJ pilots to overcome their pulchritudinous shortcomings.
Jet Jocks have always been the elite aviators for obvious reasons.
Gentleman Aviator
Jet Jocks have always been the elite aviators for obvious reasons.
Teeters
Very impressed - you really did take great care to ensure that your initial response was "Edited to answer the exam question" since 500N's question did indeed refer to "three" and not "three or more"!
If one takes PN's definition of a "combat veteran" which (with apologies to PN, whose posts I greatly enjoy), I don't, HRH Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, made a very substantial contribution to the war effort whilst her husband was Governor General of Canada.
Incidentally, and moving this thread even further off track, Princess Alice's brother could perhaps also have been considered a royal combat veteran up until his death in early 1954, having been HRH The Duke of Albany until early 1919, but unfortunately he ended up on the wrong side and with the rank of Obergruppenführer ....
Jack
Very impressed - you really did take great care to ensure that your initial response was "Edited to answer the exam question" since 500N's question did indeed refer to "three" and not "three or more"!
If one takes PN's definition of a "combat veteran" which (with apologies to PN, whose posts I greatly enjoy), I don't, HRH Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, made a very substantial contribution to the war effort whilst her husband was Governor General of Canada.
Incidentally, and moving this thread even further off track, Princess Alice's brother could perhaps also have been considered a royal combat veteran up until his death in early 1954, having been HRH The Duke of Albany until early 1919, but unfortunately he ended up on the wrong side and with the rank of Obergruppenführer ....
Jack
Last edited by Union Jack; 25th Jul 2013 at 16:03.
Whilst I was working in China one of my pilots described how he became a helicopter pilot.
He volunteered for the Naval branch of the Peoples Liberation Army. He had an engineering bent and was hoping to be a ship's engineer or something like that. He did the basic training, the political indoctrination and everything else required to pass out as a Chinese Naval officer. During this time they were not asked, or were there any aptitude tests, as to their future careers.
On successful completion they were lined up and a senior officer came down the row saying, "You are an Engineer, you are a Deck Officer, you are in Gunnery and so on. When he came to him he told him that he was going to be a helicopter pilot.
He did what he was told and eventually he came along to us.
I will give the PLA training system full marks. How on earth they managed to get him co-ordinated enough to fly a helicopter was completely beyond me.
He volunteered for the Naval branch of the Peoples Liberation Army. He had an engineering bent and was hoping to be a ship's engineer or something like that. He did the basic training, the political indoctrination and everything else required to pass out as a Chinese Naval officer. During this time they were not asked, or were there any aptitude tests, as to their future careers.
On successful completion they were lined up and a senior officer came down the row saying, "You are an Engineer, you are a Deck Officer, you are in Gunnery and so on. When he came to him he told him that he was going to be a helicopter pilot.
He did what he was told and eventually he came along to us.
I will give the PLA training system full marks. How on earth they managed to get him co-ordinated enough to fly a helicopter was completely beyond me.
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Surely what this all suggests is that most well educated kids with enough motivation have a fighting chance at making to to Mil Rotary.
FJ is another matter, and that is just a numbers game. If you ain't in the 10% that can hack it, and then in the 30% of courses that need one you'll still end up a chopper puke.
And proud of it.
Sadly, if you're a top royal it may be seen as "safer" to put you in helos. Right/wrong we can argue tile the cows come home and even then we'll never know if it's reality. Live with it - an illustrious history of successful Royal pilots.
The boys done good. And still do.
FJ is another matter, and that is just a numbers game. If you ain't in the 10% that can hack it, and then in the 30% of courses that need one you'll still end up a chopper puke.
And proud of it.
Sadly, if you're a top royal it may be seen as "safer" to put you in helos. Right/wrong we can argue tile the cows come home and even then we'll never know if it's reality. Live with it - an illustrious history of successful Royal pilots.
The boys done good. And still do.
To me that all takes a fair amount of skill, and for which I am prepared to respect his ability as a pilot and one who then was perhaps just 25 years old. He was responsible for a valuable aircraft, his crewman and operating in a very un-forgiving environment.
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Originally Posted by NutherA2:7959213
? I thought Charles qualified as a Phantom pilot (or maybe Bucc....... can't remember for sure) during his time in the Navy
HRH did not fly during his RN career, but did command a minesweeper, HMS Bronington,
Following completion of his flying training in the RAF on the JP, his instructor, Dick Johns, brought him up to Leuchars to visit 43(F) Sqn as one item in "Operation Golden Eagle". He was given one trip in the back seat of Phantom FG1 piloted by Wg Cdr "Hank" Martin.
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Lots of my Mates did that and more when we were aged 19-21.....does that make us qualified to be King?
The relevance or logic (sic) of your post is utterly incomprehensible. (or it would be if it had any)
d'uh oh!