Drinking Culture in the RAF Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.
Booze in the RAF today
It's fair to say that we (aircrew) do drink less at "work" these days, and there are plenty of reasons for it:
1. Mess life is very different from the Cold War/RAFG days as previously mentioned. People also tend not to live-in these days (post-OCU) unless there's something wrong with them
2. Drinking and flying really isn't big or clever - in fact it's totally unprofessional. It used to be "ok" to drink and drive - the RAF only caught up in the past 15-20 years.
3. You can be tested for booze/drugs after any accident these days. Read the last F3 accident report to see just how much detail they go into. Note - drugs or alcohol had nothing to do with Kenny's crash, it's just the first accident report I read that made me realise just how seriously we are about alcohol vs aviation these days.
That's not to say we don't drink these days - happy hours are generally good but tend to need a catalyst to make them legendary these days. Dining in nights are usually followed by no-fly or gnd trg days nowadays (thank goodness
) so people can build their sheds without worrying too much about the morning after. But you'd have to be a real idiot to go flying with alcohol in your system.
1. Mess life is very different from the Cold War/RAFG days as previously mentioned. People also tend not to live-in these days (post-OCU) unless there's something wrong with them
2. Drinking and flying really isn't big or clever - in fact it's totally unprofessional. It used to be "ok" to drink and drive - the RAF only caught up in the past 15-20 years.
3. You can be tested for booze/drugs after any accident these days. Read the last F3 accident report to see just how much detail they go into. Note - drugs or alcohol had nothing to do with Kenny's crash, it's just the first accident report I read that made me realise just how seriously we are about alcohol vs aviation these days.
That's not to say we don't drink these days - happy hours are generally good but tend to need a catalyst to make them legendary these days. Dining in nights are usually followed by no-fly or gnd trg days nowadays (thank goodness
) so people can build their sheds without worrying too much about the morning after. But you'd have to be a real idiot to go flying with alcohol in your system.
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Really it's all just gone the way we operate Civi wise.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In 1964 the bar at Finningley was pale cream woodwork, blue velvet seating and very subdued lighting a la USAF Clubs. I remember one liquid lunch when on the ground school. I think we had a late-PM start and I certainly had a glass or 4 of sherbet. Poured out of the bar at 2 it was a rude awakening finding bright sunshine rather than a starlite sky.
The anti-drink culture started when Craig was CAS and went from there. I remember my boss, slops at ISK, coming back well the worse for wear and sitting in his office until tea time when he sobered up a little to do some work. It seemed his problem had started during a tour on 203 and resumed when he couldn't cope with the demands of his new job. I think it was well overdue.
There was a drinking culture at ISK with Crownex and Stablex etc but only after an early stack. With about a 100 aircrew there were also plenty of barrels on Friday nights and post-flight officers and knockers would repair to scruffs bars for individual debriefs.
There was still a culture at ISL but by now more restrained to post-flight debriefs. I recall one such debrief where it was deemed inappropriate to go home after a couple of beers and wake the wife (at 4am) so we carried on through to breakfast. I have no recollection of how or when I got home 30 miles away.
By the 90s, with more people living off base and at some distance from the station even dining-in nights could be dry affairs for some.
The anti-drink culture started when Craig was CAS and went from there. I remember my boss, slops at ISK, coming back well the worse for wear and sitting in his office until tea time when he sobered up a little to do some work. It seemed his problem had started during a tour on 203 and resumed when he couldn't cope with the demands of his new job. I think it was well overdue.
There was a drinking culture at ISK with Crownex and Stablex etc but only after an early stack. With about a 100 aircrew there were also plenty of barrels on Friday nights and post-flight officers and knockers would repair to scruffs bars for individual debriefs.
There was still a culture at ISL but by now more restrained to post-flight debriefs. I recall one such debrief where it was deemed inappropriate to go home after a couple of beers and wake the wife (at 4am) so we carried on through to breakfast. I have no recollection of how or when I got home 30 miles away.
By the 90s, with more people living off base and at some distance from the station even dining-in nights could be dry affairs for some.
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I thought this might be an appropriate read - not too much of a thread drift with a few smiles along the way
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/op...ted=1&emc=eta1
PS While reading this I made a note to try to get a coy of Roald Dahls short story Taste
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/op...ted=1&emc=eta1
PS While reading this I made a note to try to get a coy of Roald Dahls short story Taste
Last edited by Q-RTF-X; 30th Jun 2013 at 20:47. Reason: PS added
I was a tad reluctant to contribute to this thread...but..after a few beers it's a subject I know something about...
I look back in horror at my time in the RAF in the sixties and seventies when (very) heavy drinking and flying took place
'Basil' mentions Istres - we didn't just drink the wine en route to Malta/Idris/El Adem- we went in the bar first and had a couple of beers before having the wine.On the same (transport) squadron I once remember Ops phoning the pub and asking us (Friday lunchtime after 4 pints) if we'd mind going back to the squadron to do an Air Test.The main problem was -could we do the Air Test and land in time for 5pm Happy Hour.
Again, on Tankers, I remember arriving late in Akrotiri one Friday night and having do an early slot on an exercise because of crew sickness etc -we carried the plotter-who was so pi$$ed from the previous night- up the ladder and strapped him in before going to flight planning etc.
We were young,with young livers,and occasionally I and others stayed up all night before the next leg-but as I approach 70,i'm pleased and somewhat surprised I'm in such (relatively) good nick
I could go on, but I think that many who were on Transports and V Force will recognise (with hindsight) just how heavy the drinking culture was.
I look back in horror at my time in the RAF in the sixties and seventies when (very) heavy drinking and flying took place
'Basil' mentions Istres - we didn't just drink the wine en route to Malta/Idris/El Adem- we went in the bar first and had a couple of beers before having the wine.On the same (transport) squadron I once remember Ops phoning the pub and asking us (Friday lunchtime after 4 pints) if we'd mind going back to the squadron to do an Air Test.The main problem was -could we do the Air Test and land in time for 5pm Happy Hour.
Again, on Tankers, I remember arriving late in Akrotiri one Friday night and having do an early slot on an exercise because of crew sickness etc -we carried the plotter-who was so pi$$ed from the previous night- up the ladder and strapped him in before going to flight planning etc.
We were young,with young livers,and occasionally I and others stayed up all night before the next leg-but as I approach 70,i'm pleased and somewhat surprised I'm in such (relatively) good nick
I could go on, but I think that many who were on Transports and V Force will recognise (with hindsight) just how heavy the drinking culture was.
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We were young,with young livers,and occasionally I and others stayed up all night before the next leg-but as I approach 70,i'm pleased and somewhat surprised I'm in such (relatively) good nick
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I remember being subject to a minival recall one night during the 1980s. I had been to a function and had a couple of pints of beer inside me. I was ordered to fly a sortie - I was not even fit to drive and so I refused and was given a big b*ll*cking by my flight commander about Squadron loyalty!
Why did I make the decision? The only time that I flew with fresh beer inside me was during my first few months on the squadron - it was on a transit in a Shackleton from Benbecula to Lossie. We had delivered some rifles to Benbecula but with unforecast ice on the runway we had delayed landing and we needed a slurp of fuel to get back to Lossie. The Captain decreed that we would return minimum crew with the scopies as passengers - we could have a beer with lunch in the mess before the straight transit home. Needless to say, we lost an engine on the take-off run and had to make a fairly heavy landing on a rapidly icing runway. I wonder what the BOI would have made of it had we not had a successful landing, and I also wonder what the squadron's take on loyalty would have been.
Why did I make the decision? The only time that I flew with fresh beer inside me was during my first few months on the squadron - it was on a transit in a Shackleton from Benbecula to Lossie. We had delivered some rifles to Benbecula but with unforecast ice on the runway we had delayed landing and we needed a slurp of fuel to get back to Lossie. The Captain decreed that we would return minimum crew with the scopies as passengers - we could have a beer with lunch in the mess before the straight transit home. Needless to say, we lost an engine on the take-off run and had to make a fairly heavy landing on a rapidly icing runway. I wonder what the BOI would have made of it had we not had a successful landing, and I also wonder what the squadron's take on loyalty would have been.
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If you can remember it...
then you probably weren't part of it!
I worked with a few "when I's" in civilian life, when this ex-Forces drinking culture was fairly obvious. Well, actually, it stuck out like a dog's balls! I liked a drink now and then, particularly when playing darts, but Holy Moly!
The problem became trying to drink like the young men we had been, on into middle age.
The funny thing was that I saw, and then got officially shown, the writing on the wall.Then I had to quit; I could either drink heavily or else not at all, but to sit there sipping one glass of slowly-warming white wine seemed ridiculous, pathetic.
Once I was sat there faking it, drinking soda water with bitters that looks for all the world like a proper whiskey soda, I could see someone I had taken for a bon vivant turn into a slobbering fool, telling the same "When I was on..." story twice or thrice, leant in close enough for little bits of his spit to hit me in the face... Ugh! Drunk, I never noticed, or at least never minded, that.
The problem is that the military teaches you to drink heavily, but then decants you into a world where that becomes a rather silly thing to do. Some of us just do not want to change, and I think we all know people who pay heavily for that, just doing what they had been taught to do when they were young and impressionable, and resilient. I used to fall over and bounce. Now I just hit with a dull thud and lay there, moaning. Boring, I know....
I worked with a few "when I's" in civilian life, when this ex-Forces drinking culture was fairly obvious. Well, actually, it stuck out like a dog's balls! I liked a drink now and then, particularly when playing darts, but Holy Moly!
The problem became trying to drink like the young men we had been, on into middle age.
The funny thing was that I saw, and then got officially shown, the writing on the wall.Then I had to quit; I could either drink heavily or else not at all, but to sit there sipping one glass of slowly-warming white wine seemed ridiculous, pathetic.
Once I was sat there faking it, drinking soda water with bitters that looks for all the world like a proper whiskey soda, I could see someone I had taken for a bon vivant turn into a slobbering fool, telling the same "When I was on..." story twice or thrice, leant in close enough for little bits of his spit to hit me in the face... Ugh! Drunk, I never noticed, or at least never minded, that.
The problem is that the military teaches you to drink heavily, but then decants you into a world where that becomes a rather silly thing to do. Some of us just do not want to change, and I think we all know people who pay heavily for that, just doing what they had been taught to do when they were young and impressionable, and resilient. I used to fall over and bounce. Now I just hit with a dull thud and lay there, moaning. Boring, I know....
Last edited by chuks; 1st Jul 2013 at 06:47.
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Do we need the booze or, is it a "culture" thing?
In my experience how much one could drink was a very macho thing .Also there were quite a few games played whereby the penalty was to knock down a pint, quickly. Guys who could down a pint in one were heroes.
Spent many a night with head in the toilet vowing never to drink again! As probably many of us did.
So yes, it was a culture thing in my opinion.
I enjoy a couple of pints these days still...sipped slowly!
Last edited by goudie; 1st Jul 2013 at 08:20.
It used to be "ok" to drink and drive - the RAF only caught up in the past 15-20 years
It was around that time that those living out were able to claim for a taxi fare home after a dining-in night as these were regarded as parades. Doubt if that still happens - indeed reading about non-existent mess life I wouldn't be surprised to read that dining-in nights no longer exist
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I well recall in 1969 the Chivenor Stn Cdr summoning all officers into the ante-room and warning us of the dire consequences after being caught drink driving. Overnight things changed, especially given the Air Cdre's fate! But happily the 'culture', or whatever one wishes to brand the lifestyle, didn't change. Now approaching 70, I still enjoy five pints several times a week, good banter in the bar with all ages, and an annual MoT that continues to reveal a sporting liver. Vive l'alcool - albeit I now find that beer and red are a tad fatal these days.
Drinking in the 60's
After about 47 years I'll tell about about the time we were to do a Sharjah det. starting 1st Jan. with a TOT of around 0730ish.
Now, of course, we were at a party the night of 31/01, on the scaley patch, and, of course, we had our suitcases and holdalls full of clothing etc. for a fortnights trip with us!
0600ish, Cue a gaggle of very hungover/ still tipsy groundcrew staggering to 3 shed and our squadron Hastings ready to depart on time, get on strap in, hold heads, and go
Next thing, airborne and then discover that an enterprising rigger had installed a keg of beer underfloor and had a tap in the cabin!! 1 shilling a plastic cup istr.
Needless to say there wasn't a big uptake between here and Malta, and, for anyone who hasn't tried a two day old beer between Luqa and Esenboga, let me tell you, it's horrible.
Regards, Den.
After about 47 years I'll tell about about the time we were to do a Sharjah det. starting 1st Jan. with a TOT of around 0730ish.
Now, of course, we were at a party the night of 31/01, on the scaley patch, and, of course, we had our suitcases and holdalls full of clothing etc. for a fortnights trip with us!
0600ish, Cue a gaggle of very hungover/ still tipsy groundcrew staggering to 3 shed and our squadron Hastings ready to depart on time, get on strap in, hold heads, and go
Next thing, airborne and then discover that an enterprising rigger had installed a keg of beer underfloor and had a tap in the cabin!! 1 shilling a plastic cup istr.
Needless to say there wasn't a big uptake between here and Malta, and, for anyone who hasn't tried a two day old beer between Luqa and Esenboga, let me tell you, it's horrible.
Regards, Den.
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You, too?
Well, when I see my OC Domestic rolling her eyes, then I think, "Hmmm... has she heard the one about 'the only aircraft to make it into Warri Airstrip in thick dust haze that day was mine!' before?" My cue to shut up, and that is me sober!
The thing was, my "When I" colleague could see that his tale was not causing my eyes to light with enthusiasm (after the 50th telling), then he put that down to simple incomprehension on my part. Then he would lean in closer and re-tell it louder, just trying to make me understand. The spit would fly so that I would end up posed like a limbo dancer, bent over backwards trying to stay dry. What booze can do!
The best one was a fellow dressed in flip-flops and a lava-lava, holding a cold, wet, pint bottle of Gulder that was slipping un-noticed downwards as he maundered on, in his cups. I kept trying to direct his attention to the oncoming disaster as he drunkenly persisted in his oft-told tale.
Finally, the neck portion of the bottle came down and made him lose his grasp; then the bottle fell, and hit the deck with a small explosion.
There he was then, posed in the middle of a three-foot circle of beer and shrapnel, goggling at what had suddenly come to pass. I told him, "Stand still!" but he just looked down, took a step, and added blood to the hellish mix.
The thing was, my "When I" colleague could see that his tale was not causing my eyes to light with enthusiasm (after the 50th telling), then he put that down to simple incomprehension on my part. Then he would lean in closer and re-tell it louder, just trying to make me understand. The spit would fly so that I would end up posed like a limbo dancer, bent over backwards trying to stay dry. What booze can do!
The best one was a fellow dressed in flip-flops and a lava-lava, holding a cold, wet, pint bottle of Gulder that was slipping un-noticed downwards as he maundered on, in his cups. I kept trying to direct his attention to the oncoming disaster as he drunkenly persisted in his oft-told tale.
Finally, the neck portion of the bottle came down and made him lose his grasp; then the bottle fell, and hit the deck with a small explosion.
There he was then, posed in the middle of a three-foot circle of beer and shrapnel, goggling at what had suddenly come to pass. I told him, "Stand still!" but he just looked down, took a step, and added blood to the hellish mix.
Last edited by chuks; 1st Jul 2013 at 09:10.
Still Trampin' the Ramp
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Bunch of old farts travelling down the nostalgia trail and visiting their old station were shocked to the core to find that the NAAFI didn't serve any alcohol until 1700! Yes, times have changed!!!
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I remember the Gouthwaith event, v sad, my course had moved on to Valley not long before. Those were the "what's wrong with this picture" (QFI holding up empty hand) days when the studes bought all the beer; seems fair.
Anyone remember the last NATO Beer Call at Norvenich summer '75? I still deny setting fire to the 2 cars.
Anyone remember the last NATO Beer Call at Norvenich summer '75? I still deny setting fire to the 2 cars.
those living out were able to claim for a taxi
Strange how you would always see your Trabant going back to camp
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"When I was on..." story twice or thrice
How true.
I've been having a convivial pint or two with an old work colleague, who is ex-navy, for over 20yrs or more. We're often asked what we find to talk about after so many years. ''The same things we talked about last week...and the week before'' is our reply. We came to a gentleman's agreement some years ago that we would not say 'You've already told me that story many times''.