Nice gesture to servicemen!
Nice gesture to servicemen!
This thread clearly encapsulates all that is both good and bad about pprune in a single page of nonsense.
Someone wrote something nice about an incident that we all could relate to and appreciate. Everyone is entitled to either share the opinion of the OP or to disagree. In this case some chose to disagree which is their right. I'm just not entirely sure what they hoped to achieve by sharing their opinion on this thread.
The Cold War bashing that followed is just a bit weird.
Wouldn't it be nice if just for once a heartwarming tale could be regaled and everyone just took it for what it was. I guess I'm on the wrong forum for that though so in the immortal words of Forrest Gump:
"That's all I have to say about that!"
BV
Someone wrote something nice about an incident that we all could relate to and appreciate. Everyone is entitled to either share the opinion of the OP or to disagree. In this case some chose to disagree which is their right. I'm just not entirely sure what they hoped to achieve by sharing their opinion on this thread.
The Cold War bashing that followed is just a bit weird.
Wouldn't it be nice if just for once a heartwarming tale could be regaled and everyone just took it for what it was. I guess I'm on the wrong forum for that though so in the immortal words of Forrest Gump:
"That's all I have to say about that!"
BV
Last edited by Bob Viking; 18th Jun 2013 at 02:41.
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I'm not a Cold War warrior and I was never posted to Germany but I am perfectly willing to accept any freebies and upgrades. Bring it on and thanks to the conductor for showing his support.
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What a great gesture by the train manager. He gets my vote and should be applauded for offering what thanks he can to Servicemen. I'm not a Cold War warrior and I'm more than happy to accept any freebies and upgrades...bring it on!
Thread Starter
Bob,
How very true. I was talking with an author about PPRuNe over the weekend and he agreed that there are a lot of unpleasant and irrelevant posts appearing nowadays, something that wasn't a feature about 10 years ago.
Incidentally, those who have only served a mere 22 years or less wouldn't have any idea about RAF life during the 1947-1991 'Cold War'.
That the servicemen who were given this kind upgrade later sent the train manager various unit badges does at least show that they appreciated the gesture. He told me that he couldn't do what they've been sent to do, so simply wanted to show how much he appreciated their service in a tangible way.
I was close to pulling this thread yesterday, after reading the absurdly childish posts of some, but decided to leave it in situ so that others can read about the generosity of an ordinary 'man-in-the-street' Or rather, train) towards the UK's Armed Forces.
How very true. I was talking with an author about PPRuNe over the weekend and he agreed that there are a lot of unpleasant and irrelevant posts appearing nowadays, something that wasn't a feature about 10 years ago.
Incidentally, those who have only served a mere 22 years or less wouldn't have any idea about RAF life during the 1947-1991 'Cold War'.
That the servicemen who were given this kind upgrade later sent the train manager various unit badges does at least show that they appreciated the gesture. He told me that he couldn't do what they've been sent to do, so simply wanted to show how much he appreciated their service in a tangible way.
I was close to pulling this thread yesterday, after reading the absurdly childish posts of some, but decided to leave it in situ so that others can read about the generosity of an ordinary 'man-in-the-street' Or rather, train) towards the UK's Armed Forces.
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Jun 2013 at 06:10.
Just to set a couple of points straight, I'm not young, I'm in my 40s and on a full pension, and I wasn't a mover.
I don't disparage anyone's service, I just can't stand those who expect a free lunch based on their career choice, I can see that we have quite a few here.
I don't disparage anyone's service, I just can't stand those who expect a free lunch based on their career choice, I can see that we have quite a few here.
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BEagle,
I am struggling to differentiate between your moderation and your own personal opinion. Shouldn't the 2 be separated?
I am not unsurprised by the responses in a military forum and can understand some of the responses.
Hardly his generosity is it? It's not like he is donating his personal wealth to them.
I am struggling to differentiate between your moderation and your own personal opinion. Shouldn't the 2 be separated?
I am not unsurprised by the responses in a military forum and can understand some of the responses.
can read about the generosity of an ordinary 'man-in-the-street'
Last edited by fmgc; 18th Jun 2013 at 06:23.
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BEagle,
I am struggling to differentiate between your moderation and
your own personal opinion. Shouldn't the 2 be separated?
I am struggling to differentiate between your moderation and
your own personal opinion. Shouldn't the 2 be separated?
What he meant by "I was close to pulling this thread yesterday", was that as the thread starter, if he deleted his first post the thread would be deleted.
"Pulling" a thread is a right and privilege afforded to anyone who starts a thread and is always their decision and theirs alone.
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I believe you may perhaps be under the misapprehension that BEagle is a PPRuNe moderator.
What he meant by "I was close to pulling this thread yesterday", was that as the thread starter, if he deleted his first post the thread would be deleted.
What he meant by "I was close to pulling this thread yesterday", was that as the thread starter, if he deleted his first post the thread would be deleted.
Laarbruch72:-
Is that your beef? I can't speak for others but as one of the Cold War generation it never occurred to me that this train manager might favour the likes of me or of any like me. From the examples Beagle gave it seems he has identified young serving soldiers and the like and upgraded them. How he did that I'm not sure, but haircuts might have something to do with it..and age! So little chance that you or I be embarrassed into politely declining his kind gesture. That's the point, Laarbruch, kindness. As others have pointed out it is at his discretion, much as who is off-loaded is at a Captain's discretion. Neither own the kit, both have the authority.
PS Just RTFQ and see that it was the Forces Rail Card that made the ID. I don't qualify for one so rest easy as I'll stay put in cattle class.
I just can't stand those who expect a free lunch based on their career choice, I can see that we have quite a few here.
PS Just RTFQ and see that it was the Forces Rail Card that made the ID. I don't qualify for one so rest easy as I'll stay put in cattle class.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 18th Jun 2013 at 06:59.
Thread Starter
fmgc, if you don't think that being upgraded from cattle class to first class at the train manager's discretion is an act of kindness and generosity, then there's very little one can say.
Fortunately I never travel on those wretched bottom-feeding LoCo airlines with no upgrade opportunities, but I have been unexpectedly upgraded a couple of times as a 'good customer gesture' on Star Alliance flights - again, without asking and totally at the discretion of the airlines (Lufthansa and Air Canada).
Thank you for the explanation, Wholi' - that was indeed what I was considering.
Fortunately I never travel on those wretched bottom-feeding LoCo airlines with no upgrade opportunities, but I have been unexpectedly upgraded a couple of times as a 'good customer gesture' on Star Alliance flights - again, without asking and totally at the discretion of the airlines (Lufthansa and Air Canada).
Thank you for the explanation, Wholi' - that was indeed what I was considering.
Last edited by BEagle; 18th Jun 2013 at 06:57.
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Originally Posted by Genstabler:7897064
Sorry for upsetting you Pete, but I don't appreciate the service of my generation of Cold War warriors being dismissed so contemptuously by arrogant young arses.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The cost of the gift is therefore a small element of profit and a small cost of his rates. The value to the recipient however is a full £20 and may be a feel good or embarrassment.
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This will be fine until some PC knobhead says that the policy is discriminating against people who didn't serve. You can be as sure as night follows day that someone will complain and this chap's well-meant gesture will be a subject for 'disciplinary action' when he comes up for some bull**** 'annual appraisal' with a hair-gelled consultant in a cheap suit and garish tie.
A couple of years on my way to Salisbury from the Army Flying Museum at Middle Wallop, I was in a road stop where two chaps in Army uniform had just finished a meal, as the waitress passed me I asked her to give me their bill. When I went to pay, some miserable old sod sitting at another table cantankerously asked me if I'd like to pay for his too. Yet he might have had a point, for all I knew he could have been in the forces in his past.
A couple of years on my way to Salisbury from the Army Flying Museum at Middle Wallop, I was in a road stop where two chaps in Army uniform had just finished a meal, as the waitress passed me I asked her to give me their bill. When I went to pay, some miserable old sod sitting at another table cantankerously asked me if I'd like to pay for his too. Yet he might have had a point, for all I knew he could have been in the forces in his past.
Back to the original post...
I spent almost 5 years as a Geographical Bachelor, on long-distance commutes to and from MB. Only once in that time was I ever shown 'consideration' for being a SP (determined by HM Forces rail card) - me and my family were moved to first class when the carriage was particularly rowdy with Northern round ball supporters. However, in the nigh-on 4 years I have been overseas, on three occasions when I've been back on leave and on a train, I have been quietly upgraded by the Train Manager. I've not asked for it and do not expect it; however it is a nice gesture (TY Virgin Trains) and I hope that when I eventually leave the Service and get a proper job, I can similarly help SP.
And if I knew the 'customer' was a 'first-responder' (a dreadful Americanism) I would also show them some consideration.
It's nothing to do with the Cold War....it's common courtesy.
I spent almost 5 years as a Geographical Bachelor, on long-distance commutes to and from MB. Only once in that time was I ever shown 'consideration' for being a SP (determined by HM Forces rail card) - me and my family were moved to first class when the carriage was particularly rowdy with Northern round ball supporters. However, in the nigh-on 4 years I have been overseas, on three occasions when I've been back on leave and on a train, I have been quietly upgraded by the Train Manager. I've not asked for it and do not expect it; however it is a nice gesture (TY Virgin Trains) and I hope that when I eventually leave the Service and get a proper job, I can similarly help SP.
And if I knew the 'customer' was a 'first-responder' (a dreadful Americanism) I would also show them some consideration.
It's nothing to do with the Cold War....it's common courtesy.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WUH, not quite the same, but not too long back I was travelling 1st Class, as was my right, and produced my warrant to get my ticket (no ticket office at the station). I had not noticed that scrooge had issued a 2nd class warrant.
There was none of the drama that attaches to others supposedly trying for a cheap ride. The inspector accepted that I was not trying to defraud the company and I simply paid the excess.
There was none of the drama that attaches to others supposedly trying for a cheap ride. The inspector accepted that I was not trying to defraud the company and I simply paid the excess.
It wasn't that long ago that production of a Service I.D. got you an automatic discount on public transport (IIRC around 20%).
Mind you, on what we were paid on those days .......
Mind you, on what we were paid on those days .......
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I just can't stand those who expect a free lunch based on their career choice, I can see that we have quite a few here
I have just re-read the thread and cant for the life of me find anyone who fits that description. I, like (I suspect) other posters might accept such generosity with a tinge of embarrassment and sheepishness, but do not EXPECT a free lunch or anything else.
So often the case, you hear about stuff like this and the naysayers and 'bah humbug' community decry it.
I have just re-read the thread and cant for the life of me find anyone who fits that description. I, like (I suspect) other posters might accept such generosity with a tinge of embarrassment and sheepishness, but do not EXPECT a free lunch or anything else.
So often the case, you hear about stuff like this and the naysayers and 'bah humbug' community decry it.
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Perhaps some posters are missing a bigger picture here.
Feel free to berate Cold War warriors (but at least remember when it started and finished).
I don't think that whether service personnel want an upgrade is the issue here either. Yes, modern service personnel are volunteers, but not all have been, and of the millions conscripted a lot had their lives removed for government policy.
If you think the guard was wrong then look at it another way. The servicemen and women are not asking for the upgrades, yet a large proportion (IMHO) of the population hold british forces in high regard. Further more they feel that the forces are shafted on a regular basis, sent to wars that the population disagree with, are sent with not enough kit and resources, and now being killed by their own side with green on blue killings, and are regularly getting blown up or injured.......only to be discarded by the MOD (again public perception IMHO).
With this in mind, the the general population who also feel ignored and shafted by the government may take come comfort in showing that at least 'they' respect the forces and would welcome an opportunity to show gratitude!
If I may go back in long lost history and mention a Cold War conflict (the Falklands) the two opposing sides had very different levels of public support during the conflict, and this massively affected morale. British troops were seen as doing their bit for queen and country, and were then welcomed home as heroes. The Argentinian forces soon felt ignored and became aware that world cup football was making headlines everyday on the mainland, and they felt ignored and forgotten. Lying on freezing ground with the risk of getting killed every day is not made easier if one knows that your own countrymen have no interest in your conflict, and are much more interested in football.
Further back, the stripping of iron railings from UK homes during WW2 did nothing for the strategic war effort, and in fact wasted precious resources. BUT, it worked wonders for the population as it allowed them to help the troops in their minds.
So, I'm sorry if any poster wants this railwayman to not show his respect or gratitude out of his own free choice. Would the same posters give up their seat on a bus or train so that an elderly or infirm person may sit in comfort?
You would both have paid for a ticket, so what would be the point in allowing someone to sit down..............good manners, respect, free choice etc etc.
Feel free to berate Cold War warriors (but at least remember when it started and finished).
I don't think that whether service personnel want an upgrade is the issue here either. Yes, modern service personnel are volunteers, but not all have been, and of the millions conscripted a lot had their lives removed for government policy.
If you think the guard was wrong then look at it another way. The servicemen and women are not asking for the upgrades, yet a large proportion (IMHO) of the population hold british forces in high regard. Further more they feel that the forces are shafted on a regular basis, sent to wars that the population disagree with, are sent with not enough kit and resources, and now being killed by their own side with green on blue killings, and are regularly getting blown up or injured.......only to be discarded by the MOD (again public perception IMHO).
With this in mind, the the general population who also feel ignored and shafted by the government may take come comfort in showing that at least 'they' respect the forces and would welcome an opportunity to show gratitude!
If I may go back in long lost history and mention a Cold War conflict (the Falklands) the two opposing sides had very different levels of public support during the conflict, and this massively affected morale. British troops were seen as doing their bit for queen and country, and were then welcomed home as heroes. The Argentinian forces soon felt ignored and became aware that world cup football was making headlines everyday on the mainland, and they felt ignored and forgotten. Lying on freezing ground with the risk of getting killed every day is not made easier if one knows that your own countrymen have no interest in your conflict, and are much more interested in football.
Further back, the stripping of iron railings from UK homes during WW2 did nothing for the strategic war effort, and in fact wasted precious resources. BUT, it worked wonders for the population as it allowed them to help the troops in their minds.
So, I'm sorry if any poster wants this railwayman to not show his respect or gratitude out of his own free choice. Would the same posters give up their seat on a bus or train so that an elderly or infirm person may sit in comfort?
You would both have paid for a ticket, so what would be the point in allowing someone to sit down..............good manners, respect, free choice etc etc.
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Capetonian:
We'll be down your way at the end of the year. I'll let you know which restaurant we are dining in so that you can settle the bill. You will recognise me from the above 
When I went to pay, some miserable old sod sitting at another table cantankerously asked me if I'd like to pay for his too. Yet he might have had a point, for all I knew he could have been in the forces in his past.
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A couple of years on my way to Salisbury from the Army Flying Museum at Middle Wallop, I was in a road stop where two chaps in Army uniform had just finished a meal, as the waitress passed me I asked her to give me their bill. When I went to pay, some miserable old sod sitting at another table cantankerously asked me if I'd like to pay for his too. Yet he might have had a point, for all I knew he could have been in the forces in his past.
P.S. I've never had, or asked for, a services upgrade/free lunch/ or special treatment, and to the best of my knowledge, the only time I was given anything was by an appreciative BA crew member who learned from elsewhere we were en route for some refresher training so we could help out at the time of a certain middle east invasion in the early 1990s. It was a free drink and a "good luck and thank you" wish. The sentiment meant a lot more than the drink.
