Do we still have an Air Force?
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Vulcan display?
Speaking of which, remember seeing a piccie of a "Vulcan Display" where the pilot came in a tad fast and the wing imploded into a shower of torn aluminium alloy frags and crew plus remains of airframe hit the deck a second or two later.
They won't do that again...
They won't do that again...
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Poor sods, just found the incident
On the 20th September 1958, at 13.55, Vulcan VX770 crashed at RAF Syerston while taking part in their Battle of Britain display. The following has been taken from the file in the National Archives at Kew. For anyone interested the file is BT 233/403
VX770 was the first prototype Vulcan, and on this flight it was flown by a Rolls Royce crew, which included one RAF member, the navigator. The flight was a test flight for Conway engines, but with a request to do a fly past at Syerston if their timing would permit.* The crew for the flight was;
Captain; Mr. K.R. Sturt
2nd Pilot; Mr. R.W. Ford**
Navigator; Flt. Lt. R.M. Parrott
Flight Engineer; Mr. W.E. Howkins
All four crewmembers were killed as were three ground crew; Sgt. E.D. Simpson, Sgt. C. Hanson and S.A.C. Tonks.* There was one ground crew who survived bad injuries; S.A.C. Turnbull. The ground crew were associated with a ground caravan near the crash point; they were runway controllers.The map below shows the location of the crash on the airfield.
This was the second flight the aircraft made that day, taking off at about 11.20 from Hucknall, his ETA for Syerston was 13.55 after completing the trials part of the sortie.* At about 13.46 the pilot called Hucknall for clearance to do a low pass on runway 09, which was approved, and he then turned for Syerston with his ETA still 13.55. The Captain, Sturt, had been flying since 1951 and was assessed as ‘above average’; he had just over 1,644 hours, with 91 hours and 40 minutes of these on VX770.* Sturt was judged to be a ‘capable and careful pilot’.*
The following is from the ‘Brief description of the Accident’, which was in the file.* I have not included the Appendixes.
Mr. K. Sturt, a Rolls-Royce test pilot, was authorised to fly the Conway Vulcan VX 770 from Hucknall on Saturday 20th September 1958.* The flight was primarily for the Conway engine test programme but at the conclusion of the flight, and if the timing was suitable, the aircraft was to carry out a flypast at Royal Air Force Syerston as part of Syerston’s Battle of Britain At Home programme; after the flypast the aircraft was to return to Hucknall, an adjacent airfield.* Mr. Sturt was briefed for this flypast by Mr. Heyworth, Rolls-Royce Chief Test Pilot. It was to be two runs over Syerston at 200 to 300 feet and between 250 and 300 knots at 70% to 80% engine revolutions, making the same manoeuvre that Mr. Sturt had done at Farnborough Air Display on 7th September 1958.* At 1235Z Vulcan VX 770 called Syerston tower giving an ETA at Syerston of 1255Z. At 1250Z the Vulcan called Syerston Tower saying it was approaching from the West, height 250 feet for a fast run followed by a slow run.* Syerston Tower acknowledged this message and told the Vulcan that the airfield was clear until 1300Z. At 1257Z the Vulcan approached Syerston from the West and commenced a run up the main 25/07 runway at an approximate height of 80 feet (Appendix 5(iii)) and an estimated speed of 350 knots (1st witness).* A film taken at the time shows that when the aircraft was passing the Control Tower it started a roll to starboard and a slight climb; within 3/4 second a kink appeared in the starboard main plane leading edge approximately 9 feet outboard from the starboard engine intakes.* This was followed by a general stripping of the leading edge, the breaking off of the starboard wing tip and a general collapse of the main spar and wing structure between the spars.* At this stage the wing was enveloped in a cloud of fuel vapour. The aircraft was now level, with the starboard wing broken off up to the undercarriage wheel well. The Vulcan then went into a slight dive commencing a roll to port, which, at 45o of bank, increased sharply at the same time shedding the tail fin.* The remainder of the starboard wing was now on fire and the aircraft continued to roll to port with the nose lifting until the nose was vertical.* The port wing leading edge began to crumble and fire broke out in the port wing. The aircraft was now standing on its tail, travelling in plan form relative to the line of flight with the topside leading. The aircraft was then lost from view in an intense fire, reappearing with the nose pointing almost vertically downwards, having apparently continued its roll cum cartwheel.* It continued in this attitude losing height until the topside of the nose struck the ground. The port wing destroyed the fire/rescue Land Rover and runway controller’s caravan, killing all three of the occupants and injuring a fourth. All four members of the Vulcan crew were killed. From the first indication of structural failure to the time of the crash was approximately 6 seconds. The wreckage trail extended over 1400 yards.
The Board finds that:-
(a) The flight was properly authorised.
(b) The briefing of the pilot was adequate.
(c) The pilot was competent to carry out the briefed flight.
(d) The aircraft was serviceable for the flight.
(e) The weather was suitable for the flight.
Diagnosis of the Cause or Causes including all Contributory Factors
The primary cause of the accident was a structural failure of the starboard main plane. This is confirmed by inspection of the wreckage, cine films and photographs taken at the time of the accident together with statements by A.I.B. and the Chief Designer of A.V. Roe Ltd.* Although the strip examination has not been made preliminary evidence indicates that there was no failure of the engines.
The reason for the failure of the starboard mainplane has not been determined by the Board but the airframe wreckage has been sent to the Structures Department, R.A.E. Farnborough where a full investigation is being made. Additionally film analysis by R.A.E. is expected to reveal more accurate details of speed height and manoeuvre at the time of the accident.* This information was not available in time for use by the Board but in view of its obvious importance the Board considered that opinions as to the cause of the accident without this information would be of little value.
VX770 was the first prototype Vulcan, and on this flight it was flown by a Rolls Royce crew, which included one RAF member, the navigator. The flight was a test flight for Conway engines, but with a request to do a fly past at Syerston if their timing would permit.* The crew for the flight was;
Captain; Mr. K.R. Sturt
2nd Pilot; Mr. R.W. Ford**
Navigator; Flt. Lt. R.M. Parrott
Flight Engineer; Mr. W.E. Howkins
All four crewmembers were killed as were three ground crew; Sgt. E.D. Simpson, Sgt. C. Hanson and S.A.C. Tonks.* There was one ground crew who survived bad injuries; S.A.C. Turnbull. The ground crew were associated with a ground caravan near the crash point; they were runway controllers.The map below shows the location of the crash on the airfield.
This was the second flight the aircraft made that day, taking off at about 11.20 from Hucknall, his ETA for Syerston was 13.55 after completing the trials part of the sortie.* At about 13.46 the pilot called Hucknall for clearance to do a low pass on runway 09, which was approved, and he then turned for Syerston with his ETA still 13.55. The Captain, Sturt, had been flying since 1951 and was assessed as ‘above average’; he had just over 1,644 hours, with 91 hours and 40 minutes of these on VX770.* Sturt was judged to be a ‘capable and careful pilot’.*
The following is from the ‘Brief description of the Accident’, which was in the file.* I have not included the Appendixes.
Mr. K. Sturt, a Rolls-Royce test pilot, was authorised to fly the Conway Vulcan VX 770 from Hucknall on Saturday 20th September 1958.* The flight was primarily for the Conway engine test programme but at the conclusion of the flight, and if the timing was suitable, the aircraft was to carry out a flypast at Royal Air Force Syerston as part of Syerston’s Battle of Britain At Home programme; after the flypast the aircraft was to return to Hucknall, an adjacent airfield.* Mr. Sturt was briefed for this flypast by Mr. Heyworth, Rolls-Royce Chief Test Pilot. It was to be two runs over Syerston at 200 to 300 feet and between 250 and 300 knots at 70% to 80% engine revolutions, making the same manoeuvre that Mr. Sturt had done at Farnborough Air Display on 7th September 1958.* At 1235Z Vulcan VX 770 called Syerston tower giving an ETA at Syerston of 1255Z. At 1250Z the Vulcan called Syerston Tower saying it was approaching from the West, height 250 feet for a fast run followed by a slow run.* Syerston Tower acknowledged this message and told the Vulcan that the airfield was clear until 1300Z. At 1257Z the Vulcan approached Syerston from the West and commenced a run up the main 25/07 runway at an approximate height of 80 feet (Appendix 5(iii)) and an estimated speed of 350 knots (1st witness).* A film taken at the time shows that when the aircraft was passing the Control Tower it started a roll to starboard and a slight climb; within 3/4 second a kink appeared in the starboard main plane leading edge approximately 9 feet outboard from the starboard engine intakes.* This was followed by a general stripping of the leading edge, the breaking off of the starboard wing tip and a general collapse of the main spar and wing structure between the spars.* At this stage the wing was enveloped in a cloud of fuel vapour. The aircraft was now level, with the starboard wing broken off up to the undercarriage wheel well. The Vulcan then went into a slight dive commencing a roll to port, which, at 45o of bank, increased sharply at the same time shedding the tail fin.* The remainder of the starboard wing was now on fire and the aircraft continued to roll to port with the nose lifting until the nose was vertical.* The port wing leading edge began to crumble and fire broke out in the port wing. The aircraft was now standing on its tail, travelling in plan form relative to the line of flight with the topside leading. The aircraft was then lost from view in an intense fire, reappearing with the nose pointing almost vertically downwards, having apparently continued its roll cum cartwheel.* It continued in this attitude losing height until the topside of the nose struck the ground. The port wing destroyed the fire/rescue Land Rover and runway controller’s caravan, killing all three of the occupants and injuring a fourth. All four members of the Vulcan crew were killed. From the first indication of structural failure to the time of the crash was approximately 6 seconds. The wreckage trail extended over 1400 yards.
The Board finds that:-
(a) The flight was properly authorised.
(b) The briefing of the pilot was adequate.
(c) The pilot was competent to carry out the briefed flight.
(d) The aircraft was serviceable for the flight.
(e) The weather was suitable for the flight.
Diagnosis of the Cause or Causes including all Contributory Factors
The primary cause of the accident was a structural failure of the starboard main plane. This is confirmed by inspection of the wreckage, cine films and photographs taken at the time of the accident together with statements by A.I.B. and the Chief Designer of A.V. Roe Ltd.* Although the strip examination has not been made preliminary evidence indicates that there was no failure of the engines.
The reason for the failure of the starboard mainplane has not been determined by the Board but the airframe wreckage has been sent to the Structures Department, R.A.E. Farnborough where a full investigation is being made. Additionally film analysis by R.A.E. is expected to reveal more accurate details of speed height and manoeuvre at the time of the accident.* This information was not available in time for use by the Board but in view of its obvious importance the Board considered that opinions as to the cause of the accident without this information would be of little value.
Later accounts indicate that ill-disciplined, unauthorised aerobatics flown in VX770 by RAF pilots had damaged the airframe - and the damage had gone unnoticed because it was hidden in the depths of the leading edge structure. This structure was always specially inspected after a Farnborough display, but with no hint that the RAF crews had been trying to loop the aircraft, no deep inspection had been deemed necessary - it wasn't part of the normal A/F B/F....
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Brunty was rubbish with traffic 2 weeks ago. Moved 200 yards in 30 minutes in a one mile queue. U turn and went home. How hard can it be to take £10 a head from the driver of a car and let them in? At least East Kirkby have it sorted - tickets on line and limited to 4000 - show then at the entrance and park in a 10 acre field with very competent marshals, job done
This seems to be a general issue with many airshows. When I used to take the kids to Fairford, many years ago, we used to park in Swindon and catch a bus in. There were specific bus lanes which ensured a fairly swift journey to a drop off point at one of the entrances to the show.
I also remember going to many airshows where the cars starting leaving well before the end, to avoid the jams. You almost had to decide whether to either leave early, missing some of the air display but getting out before the traffic jams, or stay late, put the kids on the funfair, and leave when most of the traffic had already gone...
I also remember going to many airshows where the cars starting leaving well before the end, to avoid the jams. You almost had to decide whether to either leave early, missing some of the air display but getting out before the traffic jams, or stay late, put the kids on the funfair, and leave when most of the traffic had already gone...
Last edited by Biggus; 10th Jun 2013 at 16:28.
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Some "interesting and varied" comments here :
Cosford Air Show pledge over traffic chaos « Shropshire Star
Cosford Air Show pledge over traffic chaos « Shropshire Star
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I understand that a motorway lane can handle up to 2000 cars per lane per hour free flowing - but I'd imagine a rural road would be around 500 - 750 - so if there are 10,000 cars visiting ...................
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I stayed at Wolverhampton and started early getting to Cosford at 0630, the queues were starting then.. Didn't think about leaving until 1900 and it took me 20 mins to get out the rear gate.. Flying display was.. not as good as the old days, but as the Air Force has no money, what do you expect.. Lots of stalker for Carol though and I saw my old girl still in her colours and many old friends still serving.. A great day out..
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Brunty was rubbish with traffic 2 weeks ago. Moved 200 yards in 30 minutes in a one mile queue. U turn and went home. How hard can it be to take £10 a head from the driver of a car and let them in? At least East Kirkby have it sorted - tickets on line and limited to 4000 - show then at the entrance and park in a 10 acre field with very competent marshals, job done
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Still there with the tunnel under it.
Only two proper noisy jetsall day and one of them (vulcan) didn't even belong to the RAF. Have the cuts really gone that deep?
Should have gone to the Welshpool Air Show twenty-five miles to the West. Same two noisy jets, BBMF etc. No traffic problems, drove straight in, £5 per person admission, and around 20 minutes to exit the field at the end.
Should have gone to the Welshpool Air Show twenty-five miles to the West. Same two noisy jets, BBMF etc. No traffic problems, drove straight in, £5 per person admission, and around 20 minutes to exit the field at the end.
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"I guess you won't have read the bold red notice on the front page of the RAF Cosford Airshow webpage will you Milo, too busy monitoring traffic on the M54"
Sorry - don't know what you're getting at
The website said all the hospitality packages and enclosure tickets had sold out. Said nothing about the event being "ticket only". I checked that website very closely, just in case.
If you meant something else, then the sites changed so I can't see what you were trying to say.
As for monitoring the traffic, no I was driving past the traffic and using proper lane discipline. Took me just 50 minutes to get from Walsall to the car park. If other people knew how to do the same the queue would overall have been a lot shorter for most. Nearly all the delay was due to everyone queuing on the hard shoulder for ten miles, with lane 1 of the motorway near-empty, and the exit lane on the slip road similarly near empty. Rate of traffic off the motorway could have been doubled - the road from the motorway to the airfield was under capacity. I blame the local radio for reporting the "use hard shoulder" signs - which were only in the last few miles, but were interpreted as being for the whole motorway length. Dangerously crazy.
Sorry - don't know what you're getting at
The website said all the hospitality packages and enclosure tickets had sold out. Said nothing about the event being "ticket only". I checked that website very closely, just in case.
If you meant something else, then the sites changed so I can't see what you were trying to say.
As for monitoring the traffic, no I was driving past the traffic and using proper lane discipline. Took me just 50 minutes to get from Walsall to the car park. If other people knew how to do the same the queue would overall have been a lot shorter for most. Nearly all the delay was due to everyone queuing on the hard shoulder for ten miles, with lane 1 of the motorway near-empty, and the exit lane on the slip road similarly near empty. Rate of traffic off the motorway could have been doubled - the road from the motorway to the airfield was under capacity. I blame the local radio for reporting the "use hard shoulder" signs - which were only in the last few miles, but were interpreted as being for the whole motorway length. Dangerously crazy.
I believe that Cosford had about 18000 cars in their car parks by the end. Considering the limited access roads to the airfield itself, I think they did a cracking job in coping with a mass of arrivals brought out by the weather. Yes, the air display didn't have many fast jets, but that's never been the theme for an airfield with a less than 5000 ft runway.
Last edited by Red Line Entry; 10th Jun 2013 at 23:01.
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Lots of Noisy Jets ...
I'm afraid you have to go to the US these days if you want to attend an air show with LOTS of noisy jets.
The Chicago Air Show (which BTW is FREE) is truly remarkable. You pitch camp on the beach at Lake Michigan with the city skyline as a backdrop and watch open jawed as all manner of (mainly USAF) aircraft display over the lake. I will always remember a USMC Harrier in the hover with spectators in the water almost under the jet wash for the sheer thrill of getting blown about. AMAZING.
The air show at MCAS Miramar is an altogether more military affair with the patriotism of the country on full display ... they sure do love their Marine Corps. Full airborne assault demonstration in the morning followed by full bore flying display in the afternoon capped by the Blue Angels. They even do a night-time show if you are prepared to make a total day of it. Traffic management is a doddle as they simple park you among the row-upon-row of F18s and 53Cs. All the USN and USMC squadrons were vying for their latest "recruits" with free zaps and t-shirts. My kids were "adopted" by the Green Knights and received free t-shirts with the squadron motto "Have Gun Will Travel" emblazoned on them ... went down a storm at school when they got back. Stuff the Politically Correct lobby, I say!
If you get the chance just GO! You won't be disappointed.
ABL262
The Chicago Air Show (which BTW is FREE) is truly remarkable. You pitch camp on the beach at Lake Michigan with the city skyline as a backdrop and watch open jawed as all manner of (mainly USAF) aircraft display over the lake. I will always remember a USMC Harrier in the hover with spectators in the water almost under the jet wash for the sheer thrill of getting blown about. AMAZING.
The air show at MCAS Miramar is an altogether more military affair with the patriotism of the country on full display ... they sure do love their Marine Corps. Full airborne assault demonstration in the morning followed by full bore flying display in the afternoon capped by the Blue Angels. They even do a night-time show if you are prepared to make a total day of it. Traffic management is a doddle as they simple park you among the row-upon-row of F18s and 53Cs. All the USN and USMC squadrons were vying for their latest "recruits" with free zaps and t-shirts. My kids were "adopted" by the Green Knights and received free t-shirts with the squadron motto "Have Gun Will Travel" emblazoned on them ... went down a storm at school when they got back. Stuff the Politically Correct lobby, I say!
If you get the chance just GO! You won't be disappointed.
ABL262
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Do we still have an Air Force?
A formation flypast of RAF helicopters and fixed wing aircraft will be the impressive finale to Saturday 15th June celebrations for Her Majesty The Queen’s Official birthday. The flypast over London will comprise 32 aircraft of 13 different types from the historic Spitfire, Hurricane & Lancaster aircraft of the RAF Memorial Flight to modern multi-role Typhoon fighters, the Red Arrows Aerobatic Team and the RAF’s latest and largest transport aircraft, Voyager. In a couple of days we will reveal the formation.