Longer Afghanistan tours for British soldiers
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Most British troops have served in Afghanistan several times now so “……new arrivals spend much of their time acclimatising and gaining situational awareness…..” is not a significant factor in my opinion.
He's a TA Sgt
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Cokecan you are Sir with respect a stirrer and a plank. My heart goes out to those who will be bringing this sorry saga to a conclusion.
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I suspect that the bigger issue here is the timing of the announcement which has clearly been delayed until those affected are 'warned for operations' and therefore cannot activate their Notice to Terminate as a result of the news. I suspect that an outflow might have occurred had they not done so.....
Most, if not all, of those on a 9 month tour will not be serving 'outside the wire'. Most, if not all, will be associated to the J4 drawdown, and thus whilst at risk from IDF etc, are not advancing into contact on an hourly basis.
Those Inf nominated for the tour will be acting as a QRF for Afg forces, who may also be QRF for Afg forces already on the ground. In effect, they are standing by to stand by. They are unlikely to be in the small FOBs that have characterised the fighting in Afghanistan for the last decade.
In sum, if you think this is young lads doing 9 months of vallon patrols you're wrong.
Those Inf nominated for the tour will be acting as a QRF for Afg forces, who may also be QRF for Afg forces already on the ground. In effect, they are standing by to stand by. They are unlikely to be in the small FOBs that have characterised the fighting in Afghanistan for the last decade.
In sum, if you think this is young lads doing 9 months of vallon patrols you're wrong.
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Most, if not all, of those on a 9 month tour will not be serving 'outside the wire'. Most, if not all, will be associated to the J4 drawdown, and thus whilst at risk from IDF etc, are not advancing into contact on an hourly basis.
Those Inf nominated for the tour will be acting as a QRF for Afg forces, who may also be QRF for Afg forces already on the ground. In effect, they are standing by to stand by. They are unlikely to be in the small FOBs that have characterised the fighting in Afghanistan for the last decade.
In sum, if you think this is young lads doing 9 months of vallon patrols you're wrong.
Those Inf nominated for the tour will be acting as a QRF for Afg forces, who may also be QRF for Afg forces already on the ground. In effect, they are standing by to stand by. They are unlikely to be in the small FOBs that have characterised the fighting in Afghanistan for the last decade.
In sum, if you think this is young lads doing 9 months of vallon patrols you're wrong.
If it helps give some context, I know of US deployments where the National Guard unit was airborne and on its way home after a 12 month tour, only to turn around mid air and get extended on the spot for a further 6 months.
Here we have given affected persons a very large amount of notice that they will be spending 8 weeks extra on tour (and getting £350 per week extra into the bargain after a certain point). Given that my experiences have been that by the time you take off RSOI (an RAF colleague has just returned spending nearly 3 weeks on getting to theatre, RSOI, then local RSOI for non BSN location) and then R&R (lets be honest, its usually getting close to 3 weeks once flights are usually handled, particularly if you arent at a MOB) and hand over, actually you're getting close to 6 weeks anyway, which is a fair chunk of a 24 week tour.
My view would be that its better to expect people to stag on for an extra 8 weeks twice over, rather than dick around over 8000 people and tax the movements system even more during a very complicated draw down.
Considering our US colleagues have been doing 15 months tours for years (usually with 2 weeks R&R), moaning about an extra few weeks seems a little churlish in my book.
Here we have given affected persons a very large amount of notice that they will be spending 8 weeks extra on tour (and getting £350 per week extra into the bargain after a certain point). Given that my experiences have been that by the time you take off RSOI (an RAF colleague has just returned spending nearly 3 weeks on getting to theatre, RSOI, then local RSOI for non BSN location) and then R&R (lets be honest, its usually getting close to 3 weeks once flights are usually handled, particularly if you arent at a MOB) and hand over, actually you're getting close to 6 weeks anyway, which is a fair chunk of a 24 week tour.
My view would be that its better to expect people to stag on for an extra 8 weeks twice over, rather than dick around over 8000 people and tax the movements system even more during a very complicated draw down.
Considering our US colleagues have been doing 15 months tours for years (usually with 2 weeks R&R), moaning about an extra few weeks seems a little churlish in my book.
AU - having done an 8 months tour, frankly once you're past 4 months, it doesn't really matter how long the tour is, especially as they know even before they leave how long they'll be away.
Vin rouge - I think I realised HERRICK was past the point of parody when RSOI became a week long package at bastion for all new arrivals (AIUI). My colleague who was doing a comfy desk job in ISAF did pre-deployment training, a week at BSN doing RSOI, transit to ISAF, 2 days doing Kabul RSOI, 3 days of ISAF induction and that was before beginning his handover. Add in R&R and his handover and a 26 week tour lost nearly 10 weeks due to training, travel and handovers.
VR
I agree. The last time I went to Afg I did no RSOI, no R&R, no "decompression", no Joint Support Unit guff, no induction, no range 'zero your weapon' and a 24hr 'high five' handover. It saved me nearly 4 weeks and so I did 4 weeks less!
That said, they weren't Army and they definately played 'big boys' rules - screw up and you RTU with a career limiting report.
So not only do I agree with your sentiment about building empires but it is also the bullsh!t of treating everyone to the lowest common denominator - I think I blame Bliar/Broon and Nu Labour for that little dumming down episode!
LJ
I agree. The last time I went to Afg I did no RSOI, no R&R, no "decompression", no Joint Support Unit guff, no induction, no range 'zero your weapon' and a 24hr 'high five' handover. It saved me nearly 4 weeks and so I did 4 weeks less!
That said, they weren't Army and they definately played 'big boys' rules - screw up and you RTU with a career limiting report.
So not only do I agree with your sentiment about building empires but it is also the bullsh!t of treating everyone to the lowest common denominator - I think I blame Bliar/Broon and Nu Labour for that little dumming down episode!
LJ
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Sharpend: Trouble is, for the average 17 year old, he cannot see further than his nose! When I joined, I had absolutely no idea of what lay ahead; all I wanted to do was fly.
For the average squaddie, he wants a job and the recruiting sergeant will not be telling him the bad bits!
For the average squaddie, he wants a job and the recruiting sergeant will not be telling him the bad bits!
Project SLAM now brings our serving soldiers closer to a comparable standard of living with UK counterparts; back in the day, I lived in a room at Aldershot which had a hole in the wall that I could slip my hand through. If we assume that the average Tom will now spend 6 years or so in uniform and if he or she will now spend a higher proportion of that time away (lets not forget pre-training and decompression), then the sense of isolation and the cycle of upheaval is more volatile and can only become more pronounced. I'm not referring to overseas stations and garrisons where you can replicate an element of UK culture, awareness and stability, but operational tours.
Stand by for another report from the serving and retired echelon in a few years calling for far far more to do done to prevent increased alienation from former servicemen back in society.
Quote Jimlad1
"If it helps give some context, I know of US deployments where the National Guard unit was airborne and on its way home after a 12 month tour, only to turn around mid air and get extended on the spot for a further 6 months.
Here we have given affected persons a very large amount of notice that they will be spending 8 weeks extra on tour (and getting £350 per week extra into the bargain after a certain point). Given that my experiences have been that by the time you take off RSOI (an RAF colleague has just returned spending nearly 3 weeks on getting to theatre, RSOI, then local RSOI for non BSN location) and then R&R (lets be honest, its usually getting close to 3 weeks once flights are usually handled, particularly if you arent at a MOB) and hand over, actually you're getting close to 6 weeks anyway, which is a fair chunk of a 24 week tour.
My view would be that its better to expect people to stag on for an extra 8 weeks twice over, rather than dick around over 8000 people and tax the movements system even more during a very complicated draw down.
Considering our US colleagues have been doing 15 months tours for years (usually with 2 weeks R&R), moaning about an extra few weeks seems a little churlish in my book".
Did you propose this idea Jim, lad?
OAP
"If it helps give some context, I know of US deployments where the National Guard unit was airborne and on its way home after a 12 month tour, only to turn around mid air and get extended on the spot for a further 6 months.
Here we have given affected persons a very large amount of notice that they will be spending 8 weeks extra on tour (and getting £350 per week extra into the bargain after a certain point). Given that my experiences have been that by the time you take off RSOI (an RAF colleague has just returned spending nearly 3 weeks on getting to theatre, RSOI, then local RSOI for non BSN location) and then R&R (lets be honest, its usually getting close to 3 weeks once flights are usually handled, particularly if you arent at a MOB) and hand over, actually you're getting close to 6 weeks anyway, which is a fair chunk of a 24 week tour.
My view would be that its better to expect people to stag on for an extra 8 weeks twice over, rather than dick around over 8000 people and tax the movements system even more during a very complicated draw down.
Considering our US colleagues have been doing 15 months tours for years (usually with 2 weeks R&R), moaning about an extra few weeks seems a little churlish in my book".
Did you propose this idea Jim, lad?
OAP
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Actually, looking again at FOD Plod's photo (correct me if I am wrong) but it appears to show a group of Fairy Battle pilots somewhere in France circa 39 - 40. The Fairy Battle, and indeed the Boulton Paul Defiant, were no match for experienced Luffwaffe pilots in Me 109s.
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Fairey Battle picture looks like a group of Air gunners (almost certainly 226 Squadron from the "MQ" marking)
Air Gunners in a Battle in 1940 .... not much chance of surviving for 4 weeks never mind 4 months........................
10th May 1940 : 4 Battles despatched to dive-bomb German troops advancing through Luxembourg. 2 bombed target and 2 FTR.
Air Gunners in a Battle in 1940 .... not much chance of surviving for 4 weeks never mind 4 months........................
10th May 1940 : 4 Battles despatched to dive-bomb German troops advancing through Luxembourg. 2 bombed target and 2 FTR.
Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 16th May 2013 at 12:44.
