Ripping Yarns : Banner Target Fun
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Ripping Yarns : Banner Target Fun
With so much depressing news around at the moment ... NK, Syria, Service Personnel/Budget cuts and the Great Unwashed now encamped at RAF Waddington etc. ... I thought a little thread to give a few of you the excuse to share ripping yarns on Air to Air Gunnery Fun-n-Games might just bring a few smiles to some faces.
I don't think we've had a thread like this ... I was prompted inpart by seeing an old photo of a Meteor chasing a Banner which reminded me of a few stories told to me by a very good friend (sadly no longer with us) when he flew with 500 Squadron in the 50's flying the Meteor F4 out of RAF West Malling ... he also flew the Beaufighter during the latter stages of WW II ...
Banner cables being completely sliced off ... Tug Pilots "colourful" RT language ... a few pictures would be good ... and no doubt the WIWOL community will pitch up with their input
I had a hunt around to try a find a pic to get us started ... sadly I don't have any of my own ... but I did find this lurking in a book I won as a school prize
S/L George Lee (R) and F/L Pete Gray (L) from 43 Squadron along with mascot P/O Alcock ... early/mid 70's I think ... Phantom Gat v Banner (the banner is just visible in the back ground)
Courtney ... I'm not sure if these guys pre-dated you on 43 ?
Let's keep it to Gunnery ... no Missile stuff FTB ...
Looking forward to it ...
Best ...
Coff.
I don't think we've had a thread like this ... I was prompted inpart by seeing an old photo of a Meteor chasing a Banner which reminded me of a few stories told to me by a very good friend (sadly no longer with us) when he flew with 500 Squadron in the 50's flying the Meteor F4 out of RAF West Malling ... he also flew the Beaufighter during the latter stages of WW II ...
Banner cables being completely sliced off ... Tug Pilots "colourful" RT language ... a few pictures would be good ... and no doubt the WIWOL community will pitch up with their input
I had a hunt around to try a find a pic to get us started ... sadly I don't have any of my own ... but I did find this lurking in a book I won as a school prize
S/L George Lee (R) and F/L Pete Gray (L) from 43 Squadron along with mascot P/O Alcock ... early/mid 70's I think ... Phantom Gat v Banner (the banner is just visible in the back ground)
Courtney ... I'm not sure if these guys pre-dated you on 43 ?
Let's keep it to Gunnery ... no Missile stuff FTB ...
Looking forward to it ...
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 29th Apr 2013 at 06:55.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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My favourite from Chivenor days as we young eagles tried to hack the banner to pieces with our coloured rounds, and inevitably the odd pipper drifted in front of the banner
Meteor pilot
"Tell him I'm towing the ****ing banner, not pushing it"
AtoA in the Lightning was such a rare event I have no stories
Meteor pilot
"Tell him I'm towing the ****ing banner, not pushing it"
AtoA in the Lightning was such a rare event I have no stories
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APC Acklington back in those days, second pair on the flag, I was the lucky fellow to shoot the flag off. The first pair was Wing Leader and Squadron boss!
Was I hero or villain? To them villain because they had obviously both scored hugely, I think I may have saved them some embarrassment, so obviously a hero!
Was I hero or villain? To them villain because they had obviously both scored hugely, I think I may have saved them some embarrassment, so obviously a hero!
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I think it was in 1987 that Jaguars did some target towing at Akrotiri. One managed to engage the RHAG with his banner. There was colourful language alright, from us who had to change the cable and tapes
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Could someone explain how target towing works. The real question i would like answering is how do you hit the banner without hitting the tug, is it only crossing attacks or is the cable 2 miles long. Surely the brave chap in the tug must have had a few close moments.
Again, Puddy Cat towing the banner at Chivenor in Winston. Middle Eastern student was on his first solo shoot and had managed to select RP on the gunsight, making "very sloppy", not to mention rather difficult to track the banner with. It also meant massively too much lead. The first thing Puddy was aware of was rounds coming over his Winston's wings prompting another of his classic RT calls, "F&*K %FF!!!"
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1955 - Tangmere - Meteor F8. On the squadrons we always did our own "banner party" consisting of three pilots, one driving the landrover and the others helping with laying out the banners etc. So this brave aviator waited about 150 yds along the runway from the threshold. Landrover arrives from airfield having recovered previous banner, pulling towline beside runway. By this time there were a couple of others laid out there. Having left the front end of the towline with me they then drove back to the threshold side paying out the line as they went and parked. Meteor tug arrives and halts on my signal whereupon I take the tow rope and attach it to the aircraft, look back to see the others lay the banner on the runway, give me the thumbs up, and get back into the vehicle. I then signal to the Meteor to move forward to take up slack when notice the landrover begining to move backwards, the doors fly open and the two guys leap out and run away. The banner stayed firmly in place on the runway. Oops ! Wrong towline connected to aircraft. Oh, how we laughed!
In a later life met and flew with brave aviator whose claim to fame, or should that be notoriety, was to have concentrated so much on the flag at Sylt that he shot it off and in doing so also hit the Tempest tug, whose enraged middle european hairy pilot managed to dead stick it on the beach, threatening to murder said young pilot officer. He couldn't be trusted with a BAC 1-11 either.
In a later life met and flew with brave aviator whose claim to fame, or should that be notoriety, was to have concentrated so much on the flag at Sylt that he shot it off and in doing so also hit the Tempest tug, whose enraged middle european hairy pilot managed to dead stick it on the beach, threatening to murder said young pilot officer. He couldn't be trusted with a BAC 1-11 either.
Last edited by 26er; 29th Apr 2013 at 08:45.
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I towed a banner with a Jag (it was attached to the brake chute attachment point) at Lossie a couple of times for the QWI cse. IIRC once airborne we'd slow down and drop Full Flap for the rest of the sortie to stay below the weak link's break speed. You didn't want to see the top surfaces of the shooters disappear
18 Greens,
There are a number of foul lines, the most important for the tug is minimum angle off - i.e. you're shooting at the banner from the side, not from behind looking up the line of the strop. As Fox3 says, the tug flies a constant rate turn and the shooter is attacking the banner from the inside of the circle.
And yes, the piece of string is quite long too.
There are a number of foul lines, the most important for the tug is minimum angle off - i.e. you're shooting at the banner from the side, not from behind looking up the line of the strop. As Fox3 says, the tug flies a constant rate turn and the shooter is attacking the banner from the inside of the circle.
And yes, the piece of string is quite long too.
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God, I'd forgotten what arse clenching fun that was: relax, track, track, track, now how big is that pipper relative to the bar, squeeze, oh ****, roll and pull up and over. And breathe.......
Back to the crewroom, unfurl the flag, hunt (often in vain) for some tiny streak of colour.
'Couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo' springs to mind.
Back to the crewroom, unfurl the flag, hunt (often in vain) for some tiny streak of colour.
'Couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo' springs to mind.
I was SAC Plonk making up & attaching banners at Brawdy (as well as helping look after Sir Winston & Lady Clementine) in the mid 1970's when the Phantom detachment visited to do their bit off Hartland Point. Most flags arrived back untouched but a couple were totally shredded, always by one Sqn Ldr G. Lee.
Puddy also took a bullet through the rudder of Clementine before I left for Halton, a flight that I should have been on but my TAG went sick so had to go out to the runway for the launch & (later) recovery.
Would be interesting to know how many runway lights were obliterated by errant flags, well remember watching in horror as a wheel came off a flag at mega knots & started bouncing towards the aircraft parked on the VAAS pan & ATC, thankfully a well placed divot sent it carrering into the bondu to the north - cue one lengthy incident report & change of overalls
Puddy also took a bullet through the rudder of Clementine before I left for Halton, a flight that I should have been on but my TAG went sick so had to go out to the runway for the launch & (later) recovery.
Would be interesting to know how many runway lights were obliterated by errant flags, well remember watching in horror as a wheel came off a flag at mega knots & started bouncing towards the aircraft parked on the VAAS pan & ATC, thankfully a well placed divot sent it carrering into the bondu to the north - cue one lengthy incident report & change of overalls
Air-to-air gunnery really was the sport of true fighter pilots, rather than the air-to-mud antics of lesser beings who lurk schniebling in the weedisphere.
TWU at RAF Brawdy in 1976 was my first taste of this fun. Get airborne, sort out the GGS camera mags and off to Hartland to find Puddy in his Meatbox. Get set up, do a dry ciné pass, then sit up on the perch above and abeam the Meteor. Looks good...call “In Hot”...tip in... reverse to track the flag. Wrist out and hope the radar ranging takes over...yup, range drum moving...tracking like a god...angle off looks OK...in range...squeeze tit and “BRRRAP” from the mighty Aden with satisfying cordite smell. Cease fire...wrist in/out/in...stick top safe...break up and over the flag and up to the waiting position on the other side whilst your mate starts his run....
...and breathe!
Back to Brawdy after firing out, then a nervous wait for Puddy to come back with the flag still attached. Watch him drop, then accelerate and hurtle out to initial and back in a cloud of compressibility and a satsifying blue note. Count your holes, then survive the ciné room debrief.
Utterly great. It wasn’t as much fun on the Hawk though - no radar ranging, no smell of cordite and a circular tow pattern which seemed very odd after the straight tow we did at Brawdy. Neither could you hitch a back seat ride in ‘Clementine’, savour the delights of a bygone era and watch your chums shooting at you...
One problem at Brawdy was shipping intruding into Hartland range. I recall Puddy storming into the building one day fulminating about “The ruddy Navy! One of their wretched boats was in the range and wouldn’t go away. But I’ve got his number!”. He had indeed - it turned out to be HMS Bronington, commanded by Prince Charles! We wondered whether Puddy would put up a ‘By Royal Appointment’ sign over his desk.
Onto the F-4 with the SUU-23. This time we shot at the flag towed by a 100 Sqn Canberra. Some anxiety getting your shoots in after your first qualifier, but I see that on 16 Aug 1982 I managed 50.2% on my ‘ACE’ (not ‘ace’, I assure you!) qualification sortie. The second trip that day was rather interesting though as I experienced the “It never happens...” phenomenon of the runaway gun. I'd fired and released the tit, but the gun kept going and had fired out my entire sortie’s allocation of rounds before I could deselect the centre station selector. My colleague in the other jet said it looked rather interesting to note the massive shimmer of brass behind me from the spent cases - he'd been about to call “STOP!!!” when I'd announced the runaway...
Yes, true sport of the supreme knights of the azure.
Sadly though, I guess that nowadays it’s a thing of the past and all weaponeering is done in some horrid simulator instead....... Which simply isn’t the same.
TWU at RAF Brawdy in 1976 was my first taste of this fun. Get airborne, sort out the GGS camera mags and off to Hartland to find Puddy in his Meatbox. Get set up, do a dry ciné pass, then sit up on the perch above and abeam the Meteor. Looks good...call “In Hot”...tip in... reverse to track the flag. Wrist out and hope the radar ranging takes over...yup, range drum moving...tracking like a god...angle off looks OK...in range...squeeze tit and “BRRRAP” from the mighty Aden with satisfying cordite smell. Cease fire...wrist in/out/in...stick top safe...break up and over the flag and up to the waiting position on the other side whilst your mate starts his run....
...and breathe!
Back to Brawdy after firing out, then a nervous wait for Puddy to come back with the flag still attached. Watch him drop, then accelerate and hurtle out to initial and back in a cloud of compressibility and a satsifying blue note. Count your holes, then survive the ciné room debrief.
Utterly great. It wasn’t as much fun on the Hawk though - no radar ranging, no smell of cordite and a circular tow pattern which seemed very odd after the straight tow we did at Brawdy. Neither could you hitch a back seat ride in ‘Clementine’, savour the delights of a bygone era and watch your chums shooting at you...
One problem at Brawdy was shipping intruding into Hartland range. I recall Puddy storming into the building one day fulminating about “The ruddy Navy! One of their wretched boats was in the range and wouldn’t go away. But I’ve got his number!”. He had indeed - it turned out to be HMS Bronington, commanded by Prince Charles! We wondered whether Puddy would put up a ‘By Royal Appointment’ sign over his desk.
Onto the F-4 with the SUU-23. This time we shot at the flag towed by a 100 Sqn Canberra. Some anxiety getting your shoots in after your first qualifier, but I see that on 16 Aug 1982 I managed 50.2% on my ‘ACE’ (not ‘ace’, I assure you!) qualification sortie. The second trip that day was rather interesting though as I experienced the “It never happens...” phenomenon of the runaway gun. I'd fired and released the tit, but the gun kept going and had fired out my entire sortie’s allocation of rounds before I could deselect the centre station selector. My colleague in the other jet said it looked rather interesting to note the massive shimmer of brass behind me from the spent cases - he'd been about to call “STOP!!!” when I'd announced the runaway...
Yes, true sport of the supreme knights of the azure.
Sadly though, I guess that nowadays it’s a thing of the past and all weaponeering is done in some horrid simulator instead....... Which simply isn’t the same.
Last edited by BEagle; 29th Apr 2013 at 16:33.