Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Here it comes: Syria

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Here it comes: Syria

Old 22nd May 2013, 17:19
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
the rebels have been using the Russian Metis (AT-13 Saxhorn) IIRC
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 22nd May 2013, 18:15
  #102 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,024
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes on 24 Posts
Definitely not the Metis-M


Last edited by ORAC; 22nd May 2013 at 18:16.
ORAC is online now  
Old 22nd May 2013, 18:24
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 58
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I couldn't find anything Russian that looked like it
but that doesn't mean it's not.

It certainly looks close to the Javelin.

Any thoughts from anyone ?


If it is a Javelin, does that mean US Troops might be on the ground
or the US has supplied a few to the rebels ?????
500N is offline  
Old 22nd May 2013, 18:46
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And now it arrives here..

'Shootings' and 'machete attack' in south east London: live - Telegraph
tonker is offline  
Old 22nd May 2013, 19:02
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
If it is a Javelin, does that mean US Troops might be on the ground
or the US has supplied a few to the rebels ?????
US troops on the ground fighting for the Assad side?

Not likely. IIRC, that video is a shot of a rebel group in action with a tank.

Various gear of war has been infiltrating into Syria via a few of our allies in the Persian Gulf for the past few years, to support various insurgent factions.

They have plenty of American kit that might get slipped across a border here and there ...

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 22nd May 2013 at 19:03.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 12:32
  #106 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No chance of No fly zone now

Russia will deploy S-300 according to BBC.

oap
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 13:14
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BBC News - EU ends arms embargo on Syria rebels

Its totally insane, giving weapons to terrorists. Its really the UK and France to blame for this, wonder what the real agenda is. The real axis of evil in the world are the UK, France and USA what with all their badly thought out little interventions, actually more like the axis of incompetence.
Ronald Reagan is online now  
Old 28th May 2013, 14:31
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
Would the West be doing any of this were the Saudis and a few others not the major suppliers of crude to the industrialized world?

Think back a bit, and ask yourself if the EU and NATO intervention in Bosnia would have happened were the above not an issue? I got a few inklings back in the mid 90's that the Saudis had an influence behind the scene on behalf of the Muslim faction in Bosnia. I do know that Iran had a few hundred Pasdaran in country.

Arming the rebels allows the war to go on longer, which allows more martyrs for the faith and more dead and dying among many and sundry. It also allows for making more refugees who try to flood into Turkey, where they meet a cool reception. They also flood into Jordan, where they may destabilize the government, which is a replay of what led to Black September back in 1970. Keeping the fighting going seems, on the face of it, a way to spread the instability into neighboring countries. Is that what UK and France want?

Here's an out of the box idea; stop the refugee flow. You have to stand and fight.

How would that change the course of events?

Yes, it sounds heartless, but when one triggers the 'fight or flight' response something profound changes in the behavior.

It's an idea, but probalby impossible to implement, and maybe not an idea that would end the fight sooner.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 28th May 2013 at 14:34.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 14:39
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Why deploy the S-300 to deter western intervention when it appears there is absolutely no prospect of that? Maybe its more to deter the Israelis and, if so, what else will the Syrians be shipping in under this improved AD cover? Was it revealed what weaponry the Israelis went after a few weeks back?

Maybe Iran are trying to truck something in to northern Lebanon...
dead_pan is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 14:39
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why on earth would you want to prevent the innocent from leaving an area of mass murder and random killings?
Pure Pursuit is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 14:43
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
You miss the point, and your presumption of innocence is unwarranted, as refugees arnen't only little children. I also note your inability to think out of the box. Did you bother to read the whole post, which means all of the words, phrases, and sentences?

If you have to fight to protect your family, and there is no escape, the cornered rat mode may change how things play out.

Of course, you may also assume the fetal position and join the long line of dead victims.

It depends.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 15:11
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I fully understood your post however, I satnd by mine.

You are quite correct to assume that not all refugees are innocent however, I would hazard a guess that many of them are. To that end, it would be outrageous to close the door on them and leave them to it.

IMHO, the biggest news of the day was Israel's response to the suggestion that S-300 systems are enroute to Syria. It will be interesting to see if they are targetted by Israel in an attempt to maintain the option to over fly the country should they need to.
Pure Pursuit is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 16:03
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
The IAF will already have some plans in place to neutralize and take out those missiles on the occasion that they need some room over Syrian airspace. Their other concern is being shot at in Israeli airspace, though at the moment I doubt Assad wants to add to his problems.

EDIT:
From here:
“They are trying to basically prevent the escalation of the Syrian conflict not only into neighboring countries, but also into a region-wide conflict. This is what we’re talking about today: Is the fire in Syria devouring and consuming other countries in the region?”
heh, the first domino to fall was Iraq. That is what is spreading to other countries ... more or less.

Also: the Egyptians shut off the attempts and infiltration from Gaza into their land. Funny, genocide didn't happen. Granted, small border, and there were leaks/tunnels.

Others have the same right the Egyptians did to refuse those fleeing entry.

I empathize with the Turks whose city has been inundated with refugees, and I empathize with the refugees. They are at the mercy of whomever and wherevver. Crap position to be in.

Objective comment: if you flee your country, you concede defeat vis a vis whomever it is that you are fleeing, be it government or the local Sunni group or the local jihadis or whatever.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 28th May 2013 at 17:52.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 17:51
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The IAF should not be flying over Syria in the first place. If any other country in the world simply attacked another sovereign nation because they felt like it then the repercussions would be very harsh indeed.
I have always supported Israel in the past BUT there needs to be a limit on what they are allowed to do.
Ronald Reagan is online now  
Old 28th May 2013, 17:55
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
Ronald, that's a valid point, and has a valid counter: why should Israel allow Hezbollah access to more weapons if they can prevent it? Syria is aiding and abetting the arming of Hezbollah, and for that matter, Hezbollah is fighting shoulder to shoulder in Western Syria with Assad's forces.

It's not as black and white as you'd like it to be.

Civil wars are messy enough, and are even messier when outsiders get involved.

See Spanish Civil War of 1036-1939 for a stellar example.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 17:58
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 2,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting development in regards to Russia going ahead with the Syrian S-300 contract. Will they now go ahead with the Iranian S-300 contract? Certainly the Iranians engineer and technicians will be all over the system once delivered to Syria. Will the crafty Russians deploy personnel to jointly man the system to deter Iranian interest and Israeli air strikes? Interesting times ahead?

Various media are quoting apparent tough talk from the Israeli Defence Minister.

Israel "will know what to do" if Russia delivers highly advanced anti-aircraft missiles to Syria, Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon said Tuesday.

AFP said this was “an apparent allusion to another air strike” on Syria.

"The deliveries have not taken place – I can attest to this – and I hope they do not. But if, by some misfortune, they arrive in Syria, we will know what to do," Yaalon said.
Yaalon: We'll Know what to Do If Syria Gets S-300 - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News

Last edited by TEEEJ; 28th May 2013 at 18:03.
TEEEJ is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 20:30
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
If any other country in the world simply attacked another sovereign nation because they felt like it then the repercussions would be very harsh indeed.
Hmm, I can think of several recent examples where there were no repercussions at all (North-South Korea, Russia-Georgia, US-Iraq).

It is intriguing all this fanfare about the S-300 given there is no air threat to the regime at present. Were the Saudis or Qataris, or maybe the Turks, up to something? Not sure if the former has any airbases in the north of their country - if so these would be no more than a few tens of minutes flying time from Syrian airspace.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 22:02
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK
Age: 83
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The EU idea to arm the Syrian rebels is disgusting and the results unpredictable to say the least. Try this little thought 'Were we pleased when the Libyan government supplied arms to the IRA?'
Someone is bound to say it is not the same sort of thing.
Rosevidney1 is offline  
Old 28th May 2013, 22:09
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Totally agree Rosevidney1. These terrorists in Syria are terrible. I have just watched two videos of them chopping off people's heads with a machete!
Yet the west supports these people!!!! We ruined Libya and Iraq, now the west wants to ruin Syria!!!! The UK, France and USA are the real axis of evil in the world. Basically if there are any good guys in this its Russia and China yet again trying to stop western warmongers. The stronger those two nations get all the better for world stability. If they can stop the west in its tracks then that's a very good thing.
Ronald Reagan is online now  
Old 28th May 2013, 22:12
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 63
Posts: 6,296
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
Basically if there are any good guys in this its Russia and China yet again trying to stop western warmongers.
Check your meds, Ron. When China and Russia are the good guys, the jig is already up.


Aside: Self hating Westerners are a despicable lot. You don't want to be in their company.

Rosey: Your points have some merit. Some of the problem with arming the various rebels is that it prolongs the war, ups the body count, and continues with the refugee flow into neighboring nations.

None of that is good.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 29th May 2013 at 14:37.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.