Here it comes: Syria
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"I still find his whole tone towards the UK very patronising and
at times actually offensive,"
And not just to the UK. Old Europe ???
Reagan might have gone week at the knees occasionally but I can't think
of any other recent US President that has "put down" so many other
countries.
It is petty BS.
So much for a special relationship.
at times actually offensive,"
And not just to the UK. Old Europe ???
Reagan might have gone week at the knees occasionally but I can't think
of any other recent US President that has "put down" so many other
countries.
It is petty BS.
So much for a special relationship.
Ted makes a few good points in that article.
My trouble with him is that he looks like a cross between Bill Murray and Mark Cuban, and I can't get the Murray references out of my head whenever I see him talking.
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter ..."
"Cannonball!"
"It's in the hole, it's in the hole"
Really makes taking him seriously difficult.
My trouble with him is that he looks like a cross between Bill Murray and Mark Cuban, and I can't get the Murray references out of my head whenever I see him talking.
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter ..."
"Cannonball!"
"It's in the hole, it's in the hole"
Really makes taking him seriously difficult.
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The more this goes on the more of a farce it all becomes, sad really because at the end of the day some poor guy minding his own business and trying to earn a living is going to end up dead somewhere in Syria..
And why? Simply because someone authorised an attack he neither knew about nor was involved in, an attack that has killed peanuts in the scheme of things.
You have Obama seemingly on a massive power trip simply because he couldn't keep his mouth shut and made his Red Line statement. So to simply save face he is willing to kill Tens... Hundreds.... Thousands..
And to back him up you have the Senate, whose members couldn't agree on anything in the past. Indeed, whilst the Country debates war, one of them couldn't even be arsed to put his phone game down and take seriously what they were about to do...
Then you have the French, with a population that appears to agree with the feelings in the UK polls..
Funnily I always thought these so called leaders were elected by the people to serve the people. From what I've seen they seem to be simply serving their own agenda.
However things turn out I am truely glad this Country is out of it and that another vote will not take place.. And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it.
And why? Simply because someone authorised an attack he neither knew about nor was involved in, an attack that has killed peanuts in the scheme of things.
You have Obama seemingly on a massive power trip simply because he couldn't keep his mouth shut and made his Red Line statement. So to simply save face he is willing to kill Tens... Hundreds.... Thousands..
And to back him up you have the Senate, whose members couldn't agree on anything in the past. Indeed, whilst the Country debates war, one of them couldn't even be arsed to put his phone game down and take seriously what they were about to do...
Then you have the French, with a population that appears to agree with the feelings in the UK polls..
Funnily I always thought these so called leaders were elected by the people to serve the people. From what I've seen they seem to be simply serving their own agenda.
However things turn out I am truely glad this Country is out of it and that another vote will not take place.. And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it.
Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Sep 2013 at 20:03.
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Re the Red Line.
I just read a US newspaper.
Obama says that the International Community made the Red Line when
they declared CW abhorrent and made a treaty and Congress declared a Red Line when they ratified the treaty.
Talk about trying to spread the blame !!!
I just read a US newspaper.
Obama says that the International Community made the Red Line when
they declared CW abhorrent and made a treaty and Congress declared a Red Line when they ratified the treaty.
Talk about trying to spread the blame !!!
I think it's an illustration of the level of contempt in which he holds the public. He thinks people are dumb enough to buy this line.
Given how he got nominated, elected, and re-elected, maybe his contempt is well founded.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 4th Sep 2013 at 20:05.
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Nutloose,
"However things turn out I am truly glad this Country is out of it and that another vote will not take place.. And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it."
Totally agree with you. I look forward to seeing how little being "out of it" might shock people into seeing that the "special" relationship may have been a bit exaggerated, or only special for British PMs.
Smudge
"However things turn out I am truly glad this Country is out of it and that another vote will not take place.. And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it."
Totally agree with you. I look forward to seeing how little being "out of it" might shock people into seeing that the "special" relationship may have been a bit exaggerated, or only special for British PMs.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 4th Sep 2013 at 20:30.
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"special" relationship"
When the US wants it to be. The rest of the time, fcuk the UK,
we'll do whatever we want regardless of history, law etc.
Falklands being a good recent example.
"And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it."
The US will still come up with the same solution, regardless
of British military officers being involved.
When the US wants it to be. The rest of the time, fcuk the UK,
we'll do whatever we want regardless of history, law etc.
Falklands being a good recent example.
"And as for us being kicked out of meetings, so what, live with it."
The US will still come up with the same solution, regardless
of British military officers being involved.
I'm 2500 km from home right now and I just bought fuel containers to get me home. They will be filled as soon as Congress votes yes to attacking Syria.
To the jingoists and warmongers here, please understand that you have my complete contempt. This is potentially a " guns of August" moment and stupid, Lilly livered twits like you can't see it.
As a much wiser correspondent said about bombing Syria: "there are much more things that can go wrong with this idea than things that can go right".
To the jingoists and warmongers here, please understand that you have my complete contempt. This is potentially a " guns of August" moment and stupid, Lilly livered twits like you can't see it.
As a much wiser correspondent said about bombing Syria: "there are much more things that can go wrong with this idea than things that can go right".
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Won't be good PR for Obama or Hollander if there are lots of dead civilians from missile strikes.
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Broadsword:
T's better to stay quiet and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. Congratulations, you made believers of everyone with that comment. 
How counterfactual.
The bodies are already frozen, ready to be delivered !
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Hmmm, even if it may be a bit simplistic, do you really think there is not some truth to it?
It is rather like arguing that Op Desert Fox (which, in terms of scale and planned effect, is probably the best recent comparison to what is proposed here) had the object, above all else, of helping radical Islamists.
Of course al-Qaeda (just one of an array of armed opposition groups operating in Syria) may benefit from a weakening of Assad's forces, but that is not the object here. Indeed, it makes it even more important that any military campaign should be calibrated so that it punishes the regime without precipitating its immediate downfall.
Of course there are uncertainties, but if you cannot stomach uncertainties, then why bother having Armed Forces at all?
I'm thinking this falls into the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" category. Whatever happens, we will see the thousands killed by " western unjustified aggression", all will be women and children, and none will be regime members. If they don't bomb, we are already hearing noises off (Saudi, UAE and Qatari) saying they must do it. I heard a piece on TV last night explaining that from a Saudi/UAE/Qatar position, US tomahawks arriving in Damascus would push the price of oil up hugely. Now, if that's the case the logic says (to me anyway), oil price increases, governments (USA, British, French et al) tax take increases. In the UK of course the energy companies will use this to hike their prices further. Leading to even more tax for governments. All I see is that an Attack on Syria looks good for western governments tax income, not so good for the public. That seems to fit the current reality vis a vis political attitude vs public opinion.
Smudge
Smudge
Indeed, it makes it even more important that any military campaign should be calibrated so that it punishes the regime without precipitating its immediate downfall.
Clinton's example of missile lobbing here and there (Desert Fox included air strikes IIRC) had the sum total effect of .. not much.
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Can you give me some examples of operations that did just that, and what effect they had on said regimes?
Clinton's example of missile lobbing here and there (Desert Fox included air strikes IIRC) had the sum total effect of .. not much.
Clinton's example of missile lobbing here and there (Desert Fox included air strikes IIRC) had the sum total effect of .. not much.