F-35 Up Close @ Nellis
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My favourite Gen. Bogdan quotes on the visibility issue:
F-35 Production on Track, Program Chief Says 14 Mar 2013 By Claudette Roulo | American Forces Press Service
F-35 Production on Track, Program Chief Says
"...Bogdan said recent criticisms about technical issues and allegations of limited aft visibility are ill-informed. “I don't lose sleep at night over the technical issues on this program,” he said. There are known solutions for all of the known issues with the aircraft, he added.
“We have yet to fly a single air-to-air engagement with another F-35 or another airplane,” he said. “The airplane's not ready to do that. We're still doing basic training on the airplane, [and] we're still doing basic testing on the airplane. So for someone to assess that the visibility behind the airplane is such that it will 'get gunned down every time,' [is] a little premature."..."
___________
F-35: Quotes of the Day 13 Mar 2013 Barry Graff
http://whythef35.********.com.au/201...es-of-day.html
"I've pointed out the absurdity of a particular quote attributed to a "leaked memo" from the Director of the Operational Test and Evaluation Directorate to the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, i.e.:
Other sections of the report outline some of the flaws that make the cockpit unsafe for pilots:
“The out-of-cockpit visibility in the F-35A is less than other Air Force fighter aircraft The head rest is too large and will impede aft [rear] visibility and survivability during surface and air engagements. Aft visibility will get the pilot gunned [down] every time in dogfights."
Lieutenant General Bogden(sic), DoD's lead man on the F-35 program, was apparently hit with a question about this by someone in the media. His answer is priceless:
He pointed out the DAS system, would allow rear viewing (and below) and then said, “If some F-35 pilot out there is afraid of getting gunned every time, then we can have him fly C-12s.”
Of course a C-12 is the military of a civilian King Air. In terms of insulting a fighter pilot, I can't imagine a worse one. What Bogden effectively did is dismiss the criticism as just plain nonsense. That won't stop uniformed critics from still trying to use this as some sort of indicator of the aircraft's deficiencies, but, in fact, it is a red herring...."
F-35 Production on Track, Program Chief Says 14 Mar 2013 By Claudette Roulo | American Forces Press Service
F-35 Production on Track, Program Chief Says
"...Bogdan said recent criticisms about technical issues and allegations of limited aft visibility are ill-informed. “I don't lose sleep at night over the technical issues on this program,” he said. There are known solutions for all of the known issues with the aircraft, he added.
“We have yet to fly a single air-to-air engagement with another F-35 or another airplane,” he said. “The airplane's not ready to do that. We're still doing basic training on the airplane, [and] we're still doing basic testing on the airplane. So for someone to assess that the visibility behind the airplane is such that it will 'get gunned down every time,' [is] a little premature."..."
___________
F-35: Quotes of the Day 13 Mar 2013 Barry Graff
http://whythef35.********.com.au/201...es-of-day.html
"I've pointed out the absurdity of a particular quote attributed to a "leaked memo" from the Director of the Operational Test and Evaluation Directorate to the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, i.e.:
Other sections of the report outline some of the flaws that make the cockpit unsafe for pilots:
“The out-of-cockpit visibility in the F-35A is less than other Air Force fighter aircraft The head rest is too large and will impede aft [rear] visibility and survivability during surface and air engagements. Aft visibility will get the pilot gunned [down] every time in dogfights."
Lieutenant General Bogden(sic), DoD's lead man on the F-35 program, was apparently hit with a question about this by someone in the media. His answer is priceless:
He pointed out the DAS system, would allow rear viewing (and below) and then said, “If some F-35 pilot out there is afraid of getting gunned every time, then we can have him fly C-12s.”
Of course a C-12 is the military of a civilian King Air. In terms of insulting a fighter pilot, I can't imagine a worse one. What Bogden effectively did is dismiss the criticism as just plain nonsense. That won't stop uniformed critics from still trying to use this as some sort of indicator of the aircraft's deficiencies, but, in fact, it is a red herring...."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
What Bogden effectively did is dismiss the criticism as just plain nonsense. That won't stop uniformed critics from still trying to use this as some sort of indicator of the aircraft's deficiencies, but, in fact, it is a red herring...."
For Bogden then to trash and dismiss the comments in such a fashion sends more alarm bells ringing than almost anything else I can imagine. Someone is panicking and trying to squash the report before it's taken up by someone in the Senate.
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"What? Me Worry?" Alfred E. Neumann quote. 
U.S. pilots start F-35 training flights as report pans jet 07 Mar 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
U.S. starts F-35 training as report pans jet | World | News | Canmore Leader
“WASHINGTON — Some students in the U.S. Air Force’s F-35 fighter pilot school took their first flights on Wednesday [06 Mar 2013] in the new radar-evading jet as a report by the Pentagon’s chief tester found fault with early versions of the plane’s radar, pilot helmet & other systems…
...Defense officials said they were not surprised by the negative tone of the report given Gilmore’s views, but said it included no “showstoppers” that jeopardized the program, which must complete several more years of development before it moves into combat testing and is declared ready for operational use.
The report reviewed an “operational utility evaluation” conducted by the Air Force last year before it decided to start training seasoned pilots to fly the F-35 fighter. The training lasts 3 months and includes time in the classroom, on sophisticated simulators, and in the air. This year, the Air Force says it plans to train about 72 pilots & 711 mechanics to maintain the new planes. The first official class just completed the academic portion of their training & are now taking to the skies....
...The Air Force’s Air Education and Training Command, which approved the start of training in December, said it believed the training system was perfoming adequately and should continue.
Lockheed, the prime contractor on the F-35 program, said it agreed with the Air Force’s decision to start training pilots on the F-35, and said it was confident that the service was able to conduct safe and effective flight training operations. It said it would continue to refine the operating and tactical procedures for the jet as needed.
Joe DellaVedova, spokesman for the Pentagon’s F-35 program office, said Gilmore’s latest report was based on the Air Force’s report about its evaluation, which had found no reason to hold off on training experienced pilots to fly the new plane. He said the Air Force & F-35 program office already knew about the issues raised in the report & were working to resolve them....”
U.S. pilots start F-35 training flights as report pans jet 07 Mar 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
U.S. starts F-35 training as report pans jet | World | News | Canmore Leader
“WASHINGTON — Some students in the U.S. Air Force’s F-35 fighter pilot school took their first flights on Wednesday [06 Mar 2013] in the new radar-evading jet as a report by the Pentagon’s chief tester found fault with early versions of the plane’s radar, pilot helmet & other systems…
...Defense officials said they were not surprised by the negative tone of the report given Gilmore’s views, but said it included no “showstoppers” that jeopardized the program, which must complete several more years of development before it moves into combat testing and is declared ready for operational use.
The report reviewed an “operational utility evaluation” conducted by the Air Force last year before it decided to start training seasoned pilots to fly the F-35 fighter. The training lasts 3 months and includes time in the classroom, on sophisticated simulators, and in the air. This year, the Air Force says it plans to train about 72 pilots & 711 mechanics to maintain the new planes. The first official class just completed the academic portion of their training & are now taking to the skies....
...The Air Force’s Air Education and Training Command, which approved the start of training in December, said it believed the training system was perfoming adequately and should continue.
Lockheed, the prime contractor on the F-35 program, said it agreed with the Air Force’s decision to start training pilots on the F-35, and said it was confident that the service was able to conduct safe and effective flight training operations. It said it would continue to refine the operating and tactical procedures for the jet as needed.
Joe DellaVedova, spokesman for the Pentagon’s F-35 program office, said Gilmore’s latest report was based on the Air Force’s report about its evaluation, which had found no reason to hold off on training experienced pilots to fly the new plane. He said the Air Force & F-35 program office already knew about the issues raised in the report & were working to resolve them....”
The viz doesn't look anything like as good as an F14, F15, F16, F18, SHAR, GR9, Tiffy or A10 for that matter.
But does that make it a show-stopper? Looks a bit better than Tornado, F117and F4, A7, A6, Buccaneer, all of which were very successful.
It's obviously not ideal, but is this another case of "there's something that's not as good as it is on the F-whatever, it MUST be cancelled immediately!" outrage bus?
But does that make it a show-stopper? Looks a bit better than Tornado, F117and F4, A7, A6, Buccaneer, all of which were very successful.
It's obviously not ideal, but is this another case of "there's something that's not as good as it is on the F-whatever, it MUST be cancelled immediately!" outrage bus?
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F-35 JSF Distributed Aperture System (EO DAS)
F-35 JSF Distributed Aperture System (EO DAS) - YouTube
"Uploaded on Mar 19, 2010 Courtesy: Northrop Grumman
Northrop Grumman has developed the only 360 degree, spherical situational awareness system in the electro-optical distributed aperture system (DAS). The DAS surrounds the aircraft with a protective sphere of situational awareness. It warns the pilot of incoming aircraft and missile threats as well as providing day/night vision, fire control capability and precision tracking of wingmen/friendly aircraft for tactical maneuvering.
Designated the AN/AAQ-37, and comprising six electro-optical sensors, the full EO DAS will enhance the F-35's survivability and operational effectiveness by warning the pilot of incoming aircraft and missile threats, providing day/night vision and supporting the navigation function of the F-35's forward-looking infrared sensor.
The DAS provides: * Missile detection and tracking * Launch point detection * Situational awareness IRST & cueing * Weapons support * Day/night navigation
In addition to developing the EO DAS, Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems is supplying the F-35's AN/APG-81 advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) fire-control radar. The AESA radar is designed to enable the pilot to effectively engage air and ground targets at long range, while also providing outstanding situational awareness."
F-35 JSF Distributed Aperture System (EO DAS) - YouTube
"Uploaded on Mar 19, 2010 Courtesy: Northrop Grumman
Northrop Grumman has developed the only 360 degree, spherical situational awareness system in the electro-optical distributed aperture system (DAS). The DAS surrounds the aircraft with a protective sphere of situational awareness. It warns the pilot of incoming aircraft and missile threats as well as providing day/night vision, fire control capability and precision tracking of wingmen/friendly aircraft for tactical maneuvering.
Designated the AN/AAQ-37, and comprising six electro-optical sensors, the full EO DAS will enhance the F-35's survivability and operational effectiveness by warning the pilot of incoming aircraft and missile threats, providing day/night vision and supporting the navigation function of the F-35's forward-looking infrared sensor.
The DAS provides: * Missile detection and tracking * Launch point detection * Situational awareness IRST & cueing * Weapons support * Day/night navigation
In addition to developing the EO DAS, Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems is supplying the F-35's AN/APG-81 advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) fire-control radar. The AESA radar is designed to enable the pilot to effectively engage air and ground targets at long range, while also providing outstanding situational awareness."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 14th Mar 2013 at 19:07.
"Looks better than a Buccaneer" ... I beg your pardon
"visibility aft looks a bit better than..... etc"
Last edited by Not_a_boffin; 14th Mar 2013 at 19:56.
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Might be good if it worked like the Northrop YouTube video.
When Money is No Object: the Strange Saga of the F-35 » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
Then there’s the high-tech computer-linked helmet-mounted display system that will control these weapons (already in use with other aircraft and in other air forces)—classified as “deficient”. Doesn’t work. Why? “Expected capabilities that were not delivered” (35) include latency problems with the distributed aperture system (DAS) in the helmet-mounted video display. Latency—some call it ‘transport time’—is the time between aircraft sensors’ signal acquisition and its transmission and projection in readable format on the pilot’s helmet video display. Currently at .133 seconds, that time delay of over an eighth of a second then has to be added to the pilot’s additional physical response time of about .15 seconds if he or she is to react to the data displayed and launch a weapon. In dogfights with closing speeds of over 1000 knots, this cumulative delay of more than a quarter of a second can be potentially fatal, and the latency-derived .133 second margin of error in initial aim point stands as an unacceptable contributor to this dangerous combat deficiency. Then add in deficient “night vision acuity,” excessive jitter that degrades data and images, inconsistent bore sight alignment, distracting “green glow” seepage from other avionics, imagery and data unable to be recorded (35). So—those high-tech air-to-air missiles and guided bombs cannot even be launched.
FWIW, the lack of rear vis has not been some sort of technological surprise. When was F-35 chosen after the fly off?
I want to understand: how is this all of a sudden a big issue? Engineering and design demands tradeoffs. Anyone familiar with aircraft ought to know this.
I want to understand: how is this all of a sudden a big issue? Engineering and design demands tradeoffs. Anyone familiar with aircraft ought to know this.
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For 'Bevo': (Apologies for my non-existent skills in translating Norwegian to English)
- It goes slowly forward 28 Feb 2012
Google Translate
"...Progress in technical development
After much work has now identified or fully developed solutions to all the known technical challenges on the plane. This includes the most talked about challenges that helmet, software development and the protection against lightning.
- We see that progress with the helmet is now so good that one is likely to return to a solution at the next major milestone in April, and it will then scrutinize backup solution began to work with last year. Lightning Protection has now agreed on a solution, and restrictions on flights in the storm will be repealed in 2015, while software version "2B" installed in the aircraft. This is the software the U.S. Marine Corps will be operational in 2015, and where shortly after the use of F-35 in crisp military operations if necessary. The development of software in general, where we previously saw a backlog is now collected, and the development of Block 2B software is now on track to be installed in 2015. This shows that the measures taken just months back, now performing well, says Klever...."
Another forum translation of the relevant phrase is: "...- We see that progress with the helmet is now so good that [they/we] are likely to go back to one solution at the next major milestone in April, and [they/we] will then scrap the backup solution which began its work last year...."
- It goes slowly forward 28 Feb 2012
Google Translate
"...Progress in technical development
After much work has now identified or fully developed solutions to all the known technical challenges on the plane. This includes the most talked about challenges that helmet, software development and the protection against lightning.
- We see that progress with the helmet is now so good that one is likely to return to a solution at the next major milestone in April, and it will then scrutinize backup solution began to work with last year. Lightning Protection has now agreed on a solution, and restrictions on flights in the storm will be repealed in 2015, while software version "2B" installed in the aircraft. This is the software the U.S. Marine Corps will be operational in 2015, and where shortly after the use of F-35 in crisp military operations if necessary. The development of software in general, where we previously saw a backlog is now collected, and the development of Block 2B software is now on track to be installed in 2015. This shows that the measures taken just months back, now performing well, says Klever...."
Another forum translation of the relevant phrase is: "...- We see that progress with the helmet is now so good that [they/we] are likely to go back to one solution at the next major milestone in April, and [they/we] will then scrap the backup solution which began its work last year...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 14th Mar 2013 at 21:12.
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Some extra EODAS features (there is a video on Utube also) might be handy for the others also.
F-35 device shows new capabilities 11 Feb 2013
Northrop Grumman reports success for F-35 Lightning device - UPI.com
"BALTIMORE, Feb. 11 (UPI) -- U.S. company Northrop Grumman reports that detection of hostile ground fire has been added to the capabilities of its Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System.
The AN/AAQ-37 was designed for use by F-35 Lightning IIs for simultaneously detecting and tracking aircraft and missiles in every direction and for providing visual imagery for day or night navigation and targeting purposes.
Northrop said the new capability was demonstrated by the AN/AAQ-37 DAS while being flown aboard a test aircraft. The Distributed Aperture System detected and located tanks that were firing live rounds during preparations for a military exercise.
"Although hostile fire detection is not an F-35 requirement for the DAS, the system design makes it ideal for this mission," Northrop Grumman said. "This inherent capability enables DAS to harvest, process and deliver key battlespace information to ground forces and other aircraft autonomously, without the need for cueing or increasing pilot workload.
"The ability to gather this live fire data expands the mission possibilities of the sensor to include close air support and ground fire targeting."
In addition to detecting artillery, the system has also demonstrated a capability to simultaneously detect and pinpoint the location of rockets and anti-aircraft artillery fired in a wide area, Northrop said."
F-35 device shows new capabilities 11 Feb 2013
Northrop Grumman reports success for F-35 Lightning device - UPI.com
"BALTIMORE, Feb. 11 (UPI) -- U.S. company Northrop Grumman reports that detection of hostile ground fire has been added to the capabilities of its Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System.
The AN/AAQ-37 was designed for use by F-35 Lightning IIs for simultaneously detecting and tracking aircraft and missiles in every direction and for providing visual imagery for day or night navigation and targeting purposes.
Northrop said the new capability was demonstrated by the AN/AAQ-37 DAS while being flown aboard a test aircraft. The Distributed Aperture System detected and located tanks that were firing live rounds during preparations for a military exercise.
"Although hostile fire detection is not an F-35 requirement for the DAS, the system design makes it ideal for this mission," Northrop Grumman said. "This inherent capability enables DAS to harvest, process and deliver key battlespace information to ground forces and other aircraft autonomously, without the need for cueing or increasing pilot workload.
"The ability to gather this live fire data expands the mission possibilities of the sensor to include close air support and ground fire targeting."
In addition to detecting artillery, the system has also demonstrated a capability to simultaneously detect and pinpoint the location of rockets and anti-aircraft artillery fired in a wide area, Northrop said."
