New Medal for Drone Pilots
Think anyone who mocks the efforts of their comrades in a shooting wars have got their standards out of line!
Medals are always a hot potato. Most of us might feel there are unfair awards and criteria. I do, and I have also known friends killed in wars where they never even "earned" the gong.
Lets have less sh1t slinging. At least most awards are hard earned.
OAP
Medals are always a hot potato. Most of us might feel there are unfair awards and criteria. I do, and I have also known friends killed in wars where they never even "earned" the gong.
Lets have less sh1t slinging. At least most awards are hard earned.
OAP
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,056
Received 2,931 Likes
on
1,250 Posts
Quote:
If I'm sitting at 20,000ft and spiking an LGB to target on a TV screen in my cockpit via the targetting pod - what's the difference whether I sit in a FJ or in a cabin 4,000 miles away?
If I'm sitting at 20,000ft and spiking an LGB to target on a TV screen in my cockpit via the targetting pod - what's the difference whether I sit in a FJ or in a cabin 4,000 miles away?
Campaign medals, I could see one with a rosette or similar to denote not in theatre, but then you would have to award that to everyone involved, from the bathroom attendant down, as they all are involved in generating the end product are they not. Sitting on the couch flying a screen being just one part of the operation.
As for the going to a 'Tea Party' - there is, I suggest, just as much chance in the current Afg op for an RPAS driver to be picked up by some nutters on the way to/from work and then having their head hacked off with their b@lls shoved in their gob!
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th Feb 2013 at 21:10.
The difference is Nutty that the "blanket stacker" outside Afghanistan hasn't killed loads of insurgents and high-order terrorists, so they're unlikely to be targets; unmanned aircraft crews have and must surely be a highly prized target by these insurgents. There is no doubt that armed unmanned aircraft have given the Allies an assymetric advantage and the only options open to the insurgents are:
1. Take out the unmanned aircraft whilst on or near to the ground - they try that on an almost daily basis and fail.
2. Take out the satellite datalinks - this needs a lot of power when the aircraft has a high-gain directional antenna pointing away from the ground (that's 20,000ft away) and points directly at the satellite (40+dB gain upwards versus <3dB gain downwards - you do the maths!).
3. Take out the people that fly them - never been successful, but this really is their best option. But they would need to round up a lot to have an effect.
Or their last option is to go to the negotiating table...
LJ
1. Take out the unmanned aircraft whilst on or near to the ground - they try that on an almost daily basis and fail.
2. Take out the satellite datalinks - this needs a lot of power when the aircraft has a high-gain directional antenna pointing away from the ground (that's 20,000ft away) and points directly at the satellite (40+dB gain upwards versus <3dB gain downwards - you do the maths!).
3. Take out the people that fly them - never been successful, but this really is their best option. But they would need to round up a lot to have an effect.
Or their last option is to go to the negotiating table...
LJ
Nutty,
An Army flight school classmate of mine had been a Tail Gunner on B-52's during the early part of the Vietnam War. He recounted missions from Guam to Vietnam and return....putting down his magazine to watch the explosions of the bombs to see if perhaps they got a secondary explosion....then going back to his reading. He freely admitted his Air Medals were got under false pretense as the only risk he faced was dying of boredom.
That changed when the boys went downtown but raids over South Vietnam might as well have been flying for FedEx or UPS.....except for the method of delivery.
Not all that long later....we were flying helicopters in Vietnam....and other places we did not go to....and our Air Medals took a bit more earning than his first ones did.
Dropping into a hot LZ amidst the green tracers from .51 cal MG's, watching the RPG's headed your way from the trellises....and hearing the reports and seeing the muzzle flashes of the Ak's and RPD's banging away at you....waiting out the Mortar rounds and artillery could be a bit sporty. Even then....all that beats hell out of being in the infantry and having to deal with the little rascals nose to nose. They definitely have my respect.
Sorting out the standard for the Gongs is a bit hard as perception plays a big role in assessing the risk.
I think the real angst over the USAF's Drone Gong is that it ranks above the Bronze Star.....and as a result the guys who have faced some risk in Theater rightly feel a bit put upon by that.
No one denies the Drone guys deserve recognition as they do a very good job and are very professional....but they are not putting their necks on the line or enduring any hardships while they go about their work.
An Army flight school classmate of mine had been a Tail Gunner on B-52's during the early part of the Vietnam War. He recounted missions from Guam to Vietnam and return....putting down his magazine to watch the explosions of the bombs to see if perhaps they got a secondary explosion....then going back to his reading. He freely admitted his Air Medals were got under false pretense as the only risk he faced was dying of boredom.
That changed when the boys went downtown but raids over South Vietnam might as well have been flying for FedEx or UPS.....except for the method of delivery.
Not all that long later....we were flying helicopters in Vietnam....and other places we did not go to....and our Air Medals took a bit more earning than his first ones did.
Dropping into a hot LZ amidst the green tracers from .51 cal MG's, watching the RPG's headed your way from the trellises....and hearing the reports and seeing the muzzle flashes of the Ak's and RPD's banging away at you....waiting out the Mortar rounds and artillery could be a bit sporty. Even then....all that beats hell out of being in the infantry and having to deal with the little rascals nose to nose. They definitely have my respect.
Sorting out the standard for the Gongs is a bit hard as perception plays a big role in assessing the risk.
I think the real angst over the USAF's Drone Gong is that it ranks above the Bronze Star.....and as a result the guys who have faced some risk in Theater rightly feel a bit put upon by that.
No one denies the Drone guys deserve recognition as they do a very good job and are very professional....but they are not putting their necks on the line or enduring any hardships while they go about their work.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if you get a medal for this hypothetical 'I might be a more tempting target' theory then should every squaddie that could deploy or return from Ops get one, as there was a real plot to get one of them?
The IRA operated in mainland UK and Europe and targeted many servicemen regardless of their roles, should everyone get a medal for being in the Forces?
What about all the individuals who were top of the Spetsnaz hit list if the Cold War got hot? There were some surprising individuals singled out as essential and therefore a target such as the special weapons armourers.
I'm sorry but I find that this does nothing for the credibility of the RPAS operators, there are many others in the Forces who could imagine a plot against themselves Apache, SF, anyone who gets papped, senior ranks, people using public transport, travelling in uniform, etc.
Medals for everyone?
The IRA operated in mainland UK and Europe and targeted many servicemen regardless of their roles, should everyone get a medal for being in the Forces?
What about all the individuals who were top of the Spetsnaz hit list if the Cold War got hot? There were some surprising individuals singled out as essential and therefore a target such as the special weapons armourers.
I'm sorry but I find that this does nothing for the credibility of the RPAS operators, there are many others in the Forces who could imagine a plot against themselves Apache, SF, anyone who gets papped, senior ranks, people using public transport, travelling in uniform, etc.
Medals for everyone?
Last edited by Ivan Rogov; 14th Feb 2013 at 22:39.
Ivan
All I'm saying is that someone who flies armed unmanned aircraft in a counter-insurgency might be more of a target by enemy forces than someone who "stacks blankets". Jeeez, is that so difficult to understand?
I'm not saying "medals for everyone" but I believe that the UK's REAPER UOR crews have contributed lots to the present counter-insurgency operation in Afghanistan and have not even been recognised through the issue of campaign medal that they have lived, breathed, slept and provided kinetic support for over most of their 3 year tour.
Crystal?
LJ
All I'm saying is that someone who flies armed unmanned aircraft in a counter-insurgency might be more of a target by enemy forces than someone who "stacks blankets". Jeeez, is that so difficult to understand?
I'm not saying "medals for everyone" but I believe that the UK's REAPER UOR crews have contributed lots to the present counter-insurgency operation in Afghanistan and have not even been recognised through the issue of campaign medal that they have lived, breathed, slept and provided kinetic support for over most of their 3 year tour.
Crystal?
LJ
Dear Sirs
In the last decade, like many of my civil airline colleagues, I have spent many hours over Afghanistan, in person, in the flesh, being told that on pain of death I shall not descend below below FLXXX and that on certain days I must offset XX left/right of track, or else, and that ultimately if I lose an engine/lose pressurisation I'm down amongst them and I'm on my own....
Can I have a medal?
(yeah, I know, absurd isn't it and not a chance - but does the fact I go to Vegas on a fairly regular basis help..)
In the last decade, like many of my civil airline colleagues, I have spent many hours over Afghanistan, in person, in the flesh, being told that on pain of death I shall not descend below below FLXXX and that on certain days I must offset XX left/right of track, or else, and that ultimately if I lose an engine/lose pressurisation I'm down amongst them and I'm on my own....
Can I have a medal?
(yeah, I know, absurd isn't it and not a chance - but does the fact I go to Vegas on a fairly regular basis help..)
Last edited by wiggy; 15th Feb 2013 at 00:41.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,056
Received 2,931 Likes
on
1,250 Posts
All I'm saying is that someone who flies armed unmanned aircraft in a counter-insurgency might be more of a target by enemy forces than someone who "stacks blankets". Jeeez, is that so difficult to understand?
You're assuming that the are walking around bragging about it, otherwise you have a hell of a lot of folks in Vegas to take out to hit one. That said, an active unit of any squadron rotating back home out of theater are in exactly the same boat. As are any wounded ex service personnel that earned the respect.
A campaign medal with an appropriate emblem signifying not in theater I can understand, a medal higher than a Bronze Star I cannot and sorry I will not, it devalues those that have done great deeds at the risk of their own lives under combat conditions to below that of an armchair spectator safely ensconced in a safe environment thousands of miles from harm.
Turns the previously hallowed DFC into Didn't Fly Combat or Desk Flying Collegue awards..
The difference is Nutty that the "blanket stacker" outside Afghanistan hasn't killed loads of insurgents and high-order terrorists, so they're unlikely to be targets; unmanned aircraft crews have and must surely be a highly prized target by these insurgents
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th Feb 2013 at 23:58.
I joined up and guess what I did what I joined to do.
Now if that meant being involved on operations which than meant receiving a Campaign Medal great. That was to be recognised for having served in that campaign but again doing what I joined to do. To receive recognition for anything else I would have had to do something that was more than what I joined up to do. For the Americans a Purple Heart for being wounded (killed etc) in action. As much as that was a possibility I don’t think anyone joins up to be wounded or killed.
You join/become a UAV operator that’s what you do. You join up, become a pilot that’s what you do. You join up and become a grunt that’s what you do. To be awarded a medal you need to do something more than you joined up to do.
Now if that meant being involved on operations which than meant receiving a Campaign Medal great. That was to be recognised for having served in that campaign but again doing what I joined to do. To receive recognition for anything else I would have had to do something that was more than what I joined up to do. For the Americans a Purple Heart for being wounded (killed etc) in action. As much as that was a possibility I don’t think anyone joins up to be wounded or killed.
You join/become a UAV operator that’s what you do. You join up, become a pilot that’s what you do. You join up and become a grunt that’s what you do. To be awarded a medal you need to do something more than you joined up to do.
If I'm sitting at 20,000ft and spiking an LGB to target on a TV screen in my cockpit via the targetting pod - what's the difference whether I sit in a FJ or in a cabin 4,000 miles away?
I doubt whether the chum I lost, when his Tornado failed to return from Iraq in GW1, would consider that someone sitting comfortably in a Nevada tin box operating a drone from thousands of miles behind the lines faced anything like the same hazard as the one which killed him and his pilot.
NutLoose. I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum agreeing that the UAV medal should rank higher than a Bronze Star. I'm sure most of us will agree that a campaign medal (without clasp) is appropriate for those that have directly saved friendly lives/killed bad guys albeit from many miles away.
There is definitely a strong resistance (mostly from the older generation - not just singling you out BEagle, apologies if I came across as rude) to any kind of recognition for UAV operators. Maybe it's a sign of the times, and we that are still involved in HERRICK and other Ops around the globe recognise the huge change in modern warfare/COIN and the value brought by UAVs.
Just to clarify - nobody here is really suggesting UAV operators deserve a medal for facing risk or bravery.
BEagle - apologies again for coming across as rude - I misinterpreted your post.
There is definitely a strong resistance (mostly from the older generation - not just singling you out BEagle, apologies if I came across as rude) to any kind of recognition for UAV operators. Maybe it's a sign of the times, and we that are still involved in HERRICK and other Ops around the globe recognise the huge change in modern warfare/COIN and the value brought by UAVs.
Just to clarify - nobody here is really suggesting UAV operators deserve a medal for facing risk or bravery.
BEagle - apologies again for coming across as rude - I misinterpreted your post.
Apologies accepted, mate.
A specific campaign medal without clasp would certainly be appropriate for drone operators.
Certainly more so than the one given to certain recipients after GW1.... 30 days contiinuous service in Cyprus after 2 Aug 90 hardly merits a medal, in my view, for bravely risking sunburn.
A specific campaign medal without clasp would certainly be appropriate for drone operators.
Certainly more so than the one given to certain recipients after GW1....
30 days contiinuous service in Cyprus after 2 Aug 90 hardly merits a medal, in my view, for bravely risking sunburn.
Last edited by BEagle; 15th Feb 2013 at 08:39.
Certainly more so than the one given to certain recipients after GW1....
30 days continuous service in Cyprus after 2 Aug 90 hardly merits a medal, in my view, for bravely risking sunburn.
Sounds more like Purple Heart territory, if the UK had such an award, but only for those who were genuinely sunburned of course ......
Jack
30 days continuous service in Cyprus after 2 Aug 90 hardly merits a medal, in my view, for bravely risking sunburn.Sounds more like Purple Heart territory, if the UK had such an award, but only for those who were genuinely sunburned of course ......
Jack
Fine,
As the Member of the Order of the Purple Heart.....I can assure you that is an award for someone else's achievement. One's own actions might present the opportunity but it takes some cooperation on the part of the bad guys to get it done. Without that help and assistance (except for perhaps John Kerry maybe) you just are not going to get the Purple Heart.
I know I certainly had no desire to bag one for myself and always thought it I would only be witness to others unsuccessful avoidance of that award. As in a lot of things in my life....I was wrong.
I will say....of all the Gongs, medals, ribbons, and badges I accumulated over the years....I treasure that one the most. It reminds me of what I and others like me risk while performing our Duty. Mine was a "minor" award which I am eternally grateful as I know so many others were not as fortunate.
It must be a terrible trade.....a Flag and a Purple Heart Medal....for a Loved One. That is why I see that Purple Heart as being in a class of its own as it means so much to the families of those we lose.
As the Member of the Order of the Purple Heart.....I can assure you that is an award for someone else's achievement. One's own actions might present the opportunity but it takes some cooperation on the part of the bad guys to get it done. Without that help and assistance (except for perhaps John Kerry maybe) you just are not going to get the Purple Heart.
I know I certainly had no desire to bag one for myself and always thought it I would only be witness to others unsuccessful avoidance of that award. As in a lot of things in my life....I was wrong.
I will say....of all the Gongs, medals, ribbons, and badges I accumulated over the years....I treasure that one the most. It reminds me of what I and others like me risk while performing our Duty. Mine was a "minor" award which I am eternally grateful as I know so many others were not as fortunate.
It must be a terrible trade.....a Flag and a Purple Heart Medal....for a Loved One. That is why I see that Purple Heart as being in a class of its own as it means so much to the families of those we lose.
The question has been raised as to how best to differentiate between those who risk their necks over a set period of time in a war zone or hostile theatre, and those who perform essential duties in support and endure some risk albeit less than the former.
Australia had an answer to this following the conflict in Vietnam. In brief terms, any member of the Australian Armed Forces who spent 30 days in that theatre could lay claim to the Vietnam Medal. Others, such as RAAF and civilian pilots who flew troops and casualties into and out of Saigon and adjacent airfields, RAN personnel patrolling the waterways off the coast, etc. could claim the Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal.
The shape and design of both medals was the same, but the former had a more ornate supporter than the latter, and the ribbons displayed different colours and patterns either side of the yellow and red of the South Vietnamese flag that formed the centrepiece of both.
Thus the contribution of those who supported the action was not ignored and their exposure to risk was recognised. Those who were awarded the Vietnam Medal could not also claim the Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal.
It could be that a similar approach might be taken if the UK decides that those who contribute to the action but not by being on the ground deserve recognition in some form but not in a way that equates fully with the level of risk experienced by those who serve in theatre for a specified period.
Australia had an answer to this following the conflict in Vietnam. In brief terms, any member of the Australian Armed Forces who spent 30 days in that theatre could lay claim to the Vietnam Medal. Others, such as RAAF and civilian pilots who flew troops and casualties into and out of Saigon and adjacent airfields, RAN personnel patrolling the waterways off the coast, etc. could claim the Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal.
The shape and design of both medals was the same, but the former had a more ornate supporter than the latter, and the ribbons displayed different colours and patterns either side of the yellow and red of the South Vietnamese flag that formed the centrepiece of both.
Thus the contribution of those who supported the action was not ignored and their exposure to risk was recognised. Those who were awarded the Vietnam Medal could not also claim the Vietnam Logistic and Support Medal.
It could be that a similar approach might be taken if the UK decides that those who contribute to the action but not by being on the ground deserve recognition in some form but not in a way that equates fully with the level of risk experienced by those who serve in theatre for a specified period.
From Jane's. Some interesting comment...
Jane's Defence Weekly
US DoD creates new medal for UAV operators
Copyright © IHS Global Limited, 2013
US DoD creates new medal for UAV operators
Record Infohide
Publication:Jane's Defence Weekly
Author:Gareth Jennings, London
Section:AMERICAS, THE
Country: United States
Last posted:2013-02-15
Images:1 image
The US Department of Defense (DoD) has created a new service medal for personnel "physically removed from the fight", it was announced on 13 February.
The Distinguished Warfare Medal (DWM), which sits above the Bronze Star but below the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) in order of merit, is aimed at operators of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) who perform "extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations … regardless of their distance to the traditional combat theatre", a DoD statement read.
According to the Pentagon, the DWM would be awarded when "the member's actions have resulted in an accomplishment so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from comrades or from other persons in similar situations". Awards may be made retrospectively back to 11 September 2001.
In setting out the criteria by which the medal could be awarded, the DoD emphasised that it did not cover acts of valour.
COMMENT
The creation of the DWM is a further indication of the growing status of UAVs and their operators within the US military structure. Indeed, in 2009 the US Air Force (USAF) announced that for the first time it had more UAV operators passing through its training pipeline than pilots of manned platforms, and the DWM is an acknowledgment that these personnel warrant recognition for the work they do.
While some, particularly pilots of manned aircraft, will balk at the suggestion that UAV operators might be awarded medals while being exposed to the same levels of danger as most civilians (in fact, spoof citations of "heroic Predator drones" have already appeared in the media, mocking the announcement of the new medal), the DoD has made it clear that this is not what the DWM is about.
With UAVs being used more and more in today's combat theatres, many would argue that some means of recognising the largely unheralded work of their operators is long overdue. A case in point as to how this work has gone unrecognised until now was in the effort to eliminate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 2006. Al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq at the time, was understood to have been tracked by Predator UAVs for weeks leading up to the moment when an F-16 fighter dropped a 500 lb bomb on the house he was holed up in, killing him. While the F-16 pilot who dropped the bomb was later awarded the DFC for his actions that day, the UAV operators who had made the strike possible received no such recognition. Although few would claim they were in the same physical danger as the F-16 pilot, some official acknowledgement of their involvement in the mission would seem to be only fair.
It is also true that, while UAV operators are not exposed to the physical dangers of combat, they are very much exposed to some of the psychological dangers and to some effects that are peculiar to their situation as combatants far removed from the battlefield. A Predator or Reaper operator would typically commute to work in the morning, fly an eight-hour mission, during which he or she may be directly involved in the killing of people, and then drive back to the family home to pick up the routine of domestic life. Unlike pilots deployed to theatre, they do not have the sense of being on operations and do not have the support network that comes with being involved in a shared experience. In addition, they are acutely aware that their profession is looked down on by many of their service peers who regard being an 'aviator' as a calling and the only profession of any real worth (within the air force at least).
As such, anecdotal evidence suggests that UAV operators can experience more stress and anxiety than do pilots of manned platforms, so any measure that can be taken to help increase their sense of value to the wider air force community, including the creation of the DWM, can only be welcome.
1423756Operators of UAVs such as the MQ-9 Reaper pictured are now eligible to receive the Distinguished Warfare Medal for "extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations" dating back to 11 September 2001. (General Atomics)
Jane's Defence Weekly
US DoD creates new medal for UAV operators
Copyright © IHS Global Limited, 2013
US DoD creates new medal for UAV operators
Record Infohide
Publication:Jane's Defence Weekly
Author:Gareth Jennings, London
Section:AMERICAS, THE
Country: United States
Last posted:2013-02-15
Images:1 image
The US Department of Defense (DoD) has created a new service medal for personnel "physically removed from the fight", it was announced on 13 February.
The Distinguished Warfare Medal (DWM), which sits above the Bronze Star but below the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC) in order of merit, is aimed at operators of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) who perform "extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations … regardless of their distance to the traditional combat theatre", a DoD statement read.
According to the Pentagon, the DWM would be awarded when "the member's actions have resulted in an accomplishment so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from comrades or from other persons in similar situations". Awards may be made retrospectively back to 11 September 2001.
In setting out the criteria by which the medal could be awarded, the DoD emphasised that it did not cover acts of valour.
COMMENT
The creation of the DWM is a further indication of the growing status of UAVs and their operators within the US military structure. Indeed, in 2009 the US Air Force (USAF) announced that for the first time it had more UAV operators passing through its training pipeline than pilots of manned platforms, and the DWM is an acknowledgment that these personnel warrant recognition for the work they do.
While some, particularly pilots of manned aircraft, will balk at the suggestion that UAV operators might be awarded medals while being exposed to the same levels of danger as most civilians (in fact, spoof citations of "heroic Predator drones" have already appeared in the media, mocking the announcement of the new medal), the DoD has made it clear that this is not what the DWM is about.
With UAVs being used more and more in today's combat theatres, many would argue that some means of recognising the largely unheralded work of their operators is long overdue. A case in point as to how this work has gone unrecognised until now was in the effort to eliminate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in 2006. Al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq at the time, was understood to have been tracked by Predator UAVs for weeks leading up to the moment when an F-16 fighter dropped a 500 lb bomb on the house he was holed up in, killing him. While the F-16 pilot who dropped the bomb was later awarded the DFC for his actions that day, the UAV operators who had made the strike possible received no such recognition. Although few would claim they were in the same physical danger as the F-16 pilot, some official acknowledgement of their involvement in the mission would seem to be only fair.
It is also true that, while UAV operators are not exposed to the physical dangers of combat, they are very much exposed to some of the psychological dangers and to some effects that are peculiar to their situation as combatants far removed from the battlefield. A Predator or Reaper operator would typically commute to work in the morning, fly an eight-hour mission, during which he or she may be directly involved in the killing of people, and then drive back to the family home to pick up the routine of domestic life. Unlike pilots deployed to theatre, they do not have the sense of being on operations and do not have the support network that comes with being involved in a shared experience. In addition, they are acutely aware that their profession is looked down on by many of their service peers who regard being an 'aviator' as a calling and the only profession of any real worth (within the air force at least).
As such, anecdotal evidence suggests that UAV operators can experience more stress and anxiety than do pilots of manned platforms, so any measure that can be taken to help increase their sense of value to the wider air force community, including the creation of the DWM, can only be welcome.
1423756Operators of UAVs such as the MQ-9 Reaper pictured are now eligible to receive the Distinguished Warfare Medal for "extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations" dating back to 11 September 2001. (General Atomics)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A whole can of worms to be opened up I think. During Ellamy those supporting ops in Italy, such as 2MT who did a great job, received campaign medals as reported in the raf news, as did many ground crew. So why not reaper guys, and going back further why not former Yugoslavia campaign medals for nimrod guys for that one. Campaign medals are one thing, obviously gallantry medals are way above and beyond that. I'm not fussed as long as there is consistency, which at the moment there is not.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is the difference between using an armed drone and a remotely detonated car bomb where there is a possibility of "collateral" damage?
How can you honour the dishonourable?
I recall the words of a sergeant major in 10 Para: "If you are not prepared to fight a war with clubs, then don't fight the war" - a question of cause and commitment, I think.
How can you honour the dishonourable?
I recall the words of a sergeant major in 10 Para: "If you are not prepared to fight a war with clubs, then don't fight the war" - a question of cause and commitment, I think.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Walter,
...Because the Armed RPAS has the same CAS 9-line and delivery accuracy as an F-15E. 'Collateral' is not the sole home of RPAS. I might even say that the communication with multiple agencies, and the 'reach-back' immediately available to the RPAS Pilot is far superior that the fast jet mate...(and I have been both!), which reduces opportunities for CDE fails.
What is the difference between using an armed drone and a remotely detonated car bomb where there is a possibility of "collateral" damage?