Aircraft crashed at RAF Cranwell
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Wasn't the fundamental issue in choosing the 'dog replacement interior space? I'd prefer a 2160i over a Tutor but two of us would be very cramped with bone domes & chutes. Likewise a Slingsby.
I can live with the slack roll response (and crap stall turns are my fault), but it would be nice not to be grounded every couple of months, it is playing havoc with my currency!
I can live with the slack roll response (and crap stall turns are my fault), but it would be nice not to be grounded every couple of months, it is playing havoc with my currency!
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Some of you QFIs who have been lost in your elementary world for too long miss the point. There are now some fantastic basic jet and turbo prop ac available worldwide. Some of these ac can be configured to be very basic or progress to something quite sophisticated.
With the fidelity now available on simulators and considering our reduced intake numbers, I question whether a Grob replacement is required. Selection could be done purely with synthetics and then the RAF could provide quality training in a quality ac. One that could prepare pilots properly for whichever role/ac they are designed.
With the fidelity now available on simulators and considering our reduced intake numbers, I question whether a Grob replacement is required. Selection could be done purely with synthetics and then the RAF could provide quality training in a quality ac. One that could prepare pilots properly for whichever role/ac they are designed.
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My 2 pennyworth
Having working in procurement for MoD, we rarely buy the best or cheapest or worst or most expensive.
We buy from the supplier that offers the best story...............and who offers the most scope for post sales benefits..............
Actually I think the PC7/9 aircraft were best package.............that we never brought
Arc
Having working in procurement for MoD, we rarely buy the best or cheapest or worst or most expensive.
We buy from the supplier that offers the best story...............and who offers the most scope for post sales benefits..............
Actually I think the PC7/9 aircraft were best package.............that we never brought
Arc
Last edited by Arclite01; 10th Jan 2013 at 14:24.
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AllTrimDoubt
The current EFT world is much as it as always been. It is like a self licking lollypop. For years there has been too much hot air and little output for the number QFIs employed within EFT.
The current EFT world is much as it as always been. It is like a self licking lollypop. For years there has been too much hot air and little output for the number QFIs employed within EFT.
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The current EFT world is much as it as always been. It is like a self
licking lollypop. For years there has been too much hot air and little output
for the number QFIs employed within EFT.
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Perhaps the raf should rent the various Cessnas and Pipers that abound at various flying clubs on many bases?
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 10th Jan 2013 at 15:27.
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Thinking a bit more about this......actually is it just a propeller failure - if so it's the propeller not the aircraft at fault surely ?...............
And does the whole aircraft need replacing or is the contract due for renewal soon and so we have a chance to replace the whole lot at a fortuitous time...........
Is the Tutor a reasonable aircraft for basic training propeller issue apart ??
Arc
And does the whole aircraft need replacing or is the contract due for renewal soon and so we have a chance to replace the whole lot at a fortuitous time...........
Is the Tutor a reasonable aircraft for basic training propeller issue apart ??
Arc
For those with access to Dii and an ASIMS log-in, the DASOR from Cranwell, including photos, is available to read, however it is still not releasable to the public. 
I do enjoy reading the outrage, the reminisces and the "...if only they'd done XX and yy then everything would be peachy...".
Personally, I think the Tutor has done a sterling job, is very cheap to fly and has proved reliable. Why all the bitching? It also produces some excellent prospects for further training. I believe there ought to be a debate (not on here) regarding the increased use of synthetic training but with current running costs for the Tutor so low, why would you? The calibre of student emerging from the OASC and IOT is waaaaaay higher than in my day and very few students seem to struggle with the course, despite the much reduced hours so tinkering would probably only reduce the quality.
JMHO.
I do enjoy reading the outrage, the reminisces and the "...if only they'd done XX and yy then everything would be peachy...".
Personally, I think the Tutor has done a sterling job, is very cheap to fly and has proved reliable. Why all the bitching? It also produces some excellent prospects for further training. I believe there ought to be a debate (not on here) regarding the increased use of synthetic training but with current running costs for the Tutor so low, why would you? The calibre of student emerging from the OASC and IOT is waaaaaay higher than in my day and very few students seem to struggle with the course, despite the much reduced hours so tinkering would probably only reduce the quality.
JMHO.
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If it as you say a propellor failure it would be interesting to know the history of the prop, at this stage in the fleet life it is unlikely that this was a new propellor and I would guess that due to the propellor overhaul life the the age and number of times the propellor has been overhauled it is unlikely that the propellor age matches the airframe life.
I am sure that there are people looking into this to find if there is a common thread. Having used a few overhaul agency's in the UK for composite propellor work we have always found that the factory in Germany is better value for money in terms of quality vs price.
I am sure that there are people looking into this to find if there is a common thread. Having used a few overhaul agency's in the UK for composite propellor work we have always found that the factory in Germany is better value for money in terms of quality vs price.
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When the Tutor was selected, I think that there were 2 propellers available - made by Hoffmann or Mühlbauer. With a similar 3-blade, composite, variable-pitch Hoffmann in use on the Firefly, it would have seemed a reasonably safe choice. If, as it seems, there have been 2 similar failures after 13 years and some half a million hours of use, that is a trend that would have been difficult to predict at the start.
The Bulldog replacement had to meet a specification to satisfy the needs of air cadet AEF (by far the largest number of hours), direct-entry EFT (much of it for rotary pilots for all Services), UAS training, elementary navigator training, multi-engine lead-in training and the first stage of multi-engine QFI training. Of the aircraft then available, this aircraft, specially tailored to cover all aspects of the task, presumably offered a logical solution, even if not the most outstanding first aircraft for RAF fixed-wing pilot training. The length of the original PFI contract should have allowed UK MFTS to start with a clean sheet of paper, with piston, turbo-prop and jet options as a first stage.
The Bulldog replacement had to meet a specification to satisfy the needs of air cadet AEF (by far the largest number of hours), direct-entry EFT (much of it for rotary pilots for all Services), UAS training, elementary navigator training, multi-engine lead-in training and the first stage of multi-engine QFI training. Of the aircraft then available, this aircraft, specially tailored to cover all aspects of the task, presumably offered a logical solution, even if not the most outstanding first aircraft for RAF fixed-wing pilot training. The length of the original PFI contract should have allowed UK MFTS to start with a clean sheet of paper, with piston, turbo-prop and jet options as a first stage.
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A and C
I think if you got the three of us building a training aircraft you would probably end up with a composite SF260.
I think if you got the three of us building a training aircraft you would probably end up with a composite SF260.
You could have a combination, the piston one and the advanced Turboprop that went like snot.
As for Pipers and Cessna's as none aerobatic I would have thought they were a none starter, mind you Piper did take the PA32 modified the fuselage and made it aerobatic for the Military, also being tandem seating it would align with the later types the RAF operate and be cheap to run being based on a Piper PA32.
See
ENAER T-35 Pillán - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Jan 2013 at 17:15.
Not much cop for a military tyro
Don't forget there are many of us who climbed into JPs at CF or LOO with just a PPL under our belts. Next was Hawks at Valley followed by more Hawks at TWU before OCU. So in principle, I think Dominator is right. Big savings to be had too in equipment and manpower...
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 10th Jan 2013 at 21:00.
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Don't forget there are many of us who climbed into JPs at CF or LOO with just a PPL under our belts.
.. and many others who climbed into JP5s at CW with no previous flying experience!
Just playing devil's advocate here, but...
Just because that's how it used to happen, it doesn't mean it was right. QFI's used to beat their students over the head and ritually humiliate them (at least that's what several posters on here claim) but it doesn't mean it was the best way to impart knowledge to wannabee pilots!
BV
BV