Lightning vs Harrier 1v1

[sturb199]

As a Tonka Eng can I ask why a gun attack on a Buc was interesting?

[Lightning Mate]

Weapon aiming system.

You had to be in a dive, and if the Bucc was below 200 ft it made the recovery an anal sphincter moment.

[BOAC]

Most fighters' guns are mounted to fire above the fuselage axis to allow for the gravity drop. I would imagine the Tonka (if it has guns???) would be the same. In a 'turning fight' this does not produce a problem. With a target you can get below likewise. With a non-turning Bucc leaving trails on the sea, (or in my case parting the trees in Suffolk) it ain't easy. The 'standard' way (hence the grey hair) to kill the **** was to roll inverted above the target so the gun aim was in the right direction (but not for too long.......)

Originally Posted by LM

You had to be in a dive

??? Did you have trouble with air-to-air......

and if the Bucc was below 200 ft

- ever seen one above?

[ORAC]

Pretty sure the Lightnings never went to the Falklands.

No, they never did. There were cunning plans put forward to MOD about how they could be modified with a Y adapter to carry AIM-9G and go south, but they came to nothing. Instead the F-4s went and the F-4Js were bought instead.

[Lightning Mate]

- ever seen one above?

Nope.

Ever seen a Jaguar either?

[ARXW]

Are you sure about that?

Wrongly phrased... I guess I meant to say "the Lightning force went out of their way to train the Harrier force"

It was the Harrier GR3s I presume which came over to Binbrook to play before departing for the Falklands? All of this is taken from the Lightning pilots' book (Sqn Ldr Moulds). In it he did claim the Lightning pilots were "mustard keen to get involved" but their involvement was of course limited to some dissimilar setups against the Harriers.

A couple of Lightning pilots did get involved (albeit former types who were hastily converted to the Sea Harrier after a call for volunteers went out to the RAFG Harrier force). One even got to shoot up a couple of Argentine aircraft.

[Lightning Mate]

...and one of those is an old mate of mine now living in Salisbury.

[CoffmanStarter]

LM ... I'll ask

At post #70 ...

Slightly inaccurate roundel paint job on that one

Sorry a bit esoteric for me ... please enlighten us when you have a moment ...

Cheers ...

Coff.

[ex-fast-jets]

noprobs

Sorry - not paying attention!!

Distracted by all those ghastly pictures of targets displaying a great IR signature!!

Back to Harrier vs F104....................

Wheels roll from take-off to 10,000ft - the Harrier won by 7 secs.

And the Germans cheated and had de-fuelled, so the 104 did a glide return to Wittering, leaving me with hours of fuel and no-one to play with!!

[ORAC]

Final Redtop Firing. Apologies for quality, but scanned middle of a large photograph.

[BOAC]

Cracking pic - never seen it from that angle before - brave and trusting chase! Could have gorn anywhere, guv!

[AR1]

There's an Ex Lightning pilot comes into my local - He only stays for 20 minutes then has to go home.

[thing]

No, they never did. There were cunning plans put forward to MOD about how they could be modified with a Y adapter to carry AIM-9G and go south, but they came to nothing.

They did think about it again about three years later; I was involved in the feasability study which went along the lines of:

Oi, can you bung 'winders on a Lightning?

Nope.

Well, can you at least look into it.

Ok.

(three months later)

Can you bung 'winders on a Lighning?

Nope.

Ok.

[Dominator2]

If you looked at all of the times that with both the F4 and Tornado F3 we were nealy caughtout by the weather but due to skill and daring got away with it. I cannot imagine how many Lightnings would have been lost, or diverted to the mainland, due to a lack of fuel!
Either that or they would not have flown much like the present (risk adverse) occupants.

[Scruffy Fanny]

BOAC

BOAC - The Lightning missile firing shot was taken at Aberporth - it's XR754 flown by Dick Heath firing a Red Top - shot from a Hawk flown by Paul Warren It was taken on a large Format Bronica ETRS 75 mm lens - no motordrive - into the sun it was given extra light luckily with the missile firing.
The person who asked about fitting Sidewinder the problem is obscuration - that is to say the seeker head would be masked by the front fuselage so a missile on the right side would not be able to acquire a target 50 degrees to the left of the nose as it can't see it if that makes sense
SF

[HAS59]

Pictures?

Can someone help me here, I've got some decent photos but don't know how to upload them. The FAQ Thing says

As a member, you can create Albums of images that are linked to your public profile. Albums can be created by visiting the User Control Panel, and clicking on the 'Pictures & Albums' link, and then clicking on 'Add Album'.

but I can't find the 'Pictures & albums' link

[ORAC]

The person who asked about fitting Sidewinder the problem is obscuration - that is to say the seeker head would be masked by the front fuselage so a missile on the right side would not be able to acquire a target 50 degrees to the left of the nose as it can't see it if that makes sense

Same issue with the Redtop surely?

IIRC, at the brief at HQ11 when Concorde was to act as a target each wing sent a rep to explain to the BA crew what their tactics would be.

The Binbrook rep, I think, was a young John C****e, who explained he would do a 150 collision intercept with zoom climb taking a Fox 1 with the left Mx, then roll inverted to expose the right Mx for a second Fox 1, then pull through to pass 2000ft below.

The BA captain reportedly went a very pale shade of white.

[ORAC]

BOAC/Scruffy Fanny,

Photo has sat in it's Jessops cover for nigh on 20 years. I have a smaller framed copy on the wall, so this copy is available for a good home.

[Just This Once...]

Fitting Sidewinder to a fuselage station…

[Courtney Mil]

That's what SW REJECT was for.