China lands jet on first aircraft carrier
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The Spratly Islands and Taiwan are 2 places I'd bet on!
Fair point, but then I didn't think that CTOL and ski jumps went together so well either....
Edit:- A little bit of goggling and it would appear I was wrong, and that the Su-33, if not the the J-15, can indeed take off at max payload using this technique. Every day is a school day.
Edit:- A little bit of goggling and it would appear I was wrong, and that the Su-33, if not the the J-15, can indeed take off at max payload using this technique. Every day is a school day.
Last edited by Avionker; 25th Nov 2012 at 12:43.
I suppose with the significant increase in T/Wts ratios we see now-a-days, 'CTO' and 'STO' blur a little?
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Its like a piece of string.....what IS its max takeoff payload?
Thats something the Russians appeared very desperate to hide during their carrier trip to the Med earlier this year, and I suspect their figure won't be far short of the Chinese one - the aircraft being seemingly related.
I've not seen a single photo or video of an aircraft leaving the Russian carrier with any kind of weapon attached
Thats something the Russians appeared very desperate to hide during their carrier trip to the Med earlier this year, and I suspect their figure won't be far short of the Chinese one - the aircraft being seemingly related.
I've not seen a single photo or video of an aircraft leaving the Russian carrier with any kind of weapon attached
The Lianing was refurbished purely as a training carrier so payload doesn't come into it.
It is when they start building their own to their specifications is when to forcast their capabilities.
It is when they start building their own to their specifications is when to forcast their capabilities.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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It is easy to misunderstand the benefits of a ‘ski-jump, or inclined ramp, on a ship.
If you run a car or a bike up one you will fly (remain above the height of the level deck ) for a while even though these vehicles have no lift generating capability.
If you use an aeroplane that has some lift generating capability you will fly for longer even though you may not have lift equal to your weight. In this case if during the time you fly (thanks to the ski-jump) you can accelerate to a speed where lift will equal weight you have completed your takeoff.
So to obtain the advantages of a ski-jump (with any aeroplane) you need two things:
1 A good t/w ratio – very common with many current military aircraft – enabling you to take full advantage of the seconds of flight that the skijump provides.
2 You need to be able to control the aircraft pitch and roll attitude at the (low) ramp exit speed either by good aerodynamics or a reaction control system.
If you run a car or a bike up one you will fly (remain above the height of the level deck ) for a while even though these vehicles have no lift generating capability.
If you use an aeroplane that has some lift generating capability you will fly for longer even though you may not have lift equal to your weight. In this case if during the time you fly (thanks to the ski-jump) you can accelerate to a speed where lift will equal weight you have completed your takeoff.
So to obtain the advantages of a ski-jump (with any aeroplane) you need two things:
1 A good t/w ratio – very common with many current military aircraft – enabling you to take full advantage of the seconds of flight that the skijump provides.
2 You need to be able to control the aircraft pitch and roll attitude at the (low) ramp exit speed either by good aerodynamics or a reaction control system.
John F
A rational response from you, as I would expect!! Perhaps unusual for some threads here! But everyone has to start somewhere.
I think that the Chinese efforts are admirable.
Their tentative efforts seem to have worked well. So, well done to them.
Turn the clocks back several years, and I would be more than happy to go on exchange with them and have a go!!
Nice looking boat, nice looking plane, and nice weather.
Why not go for it!!
I think that the Chinese efforts are admirable.
Their tentative efforts seem to have worked well. So, well done to them.
Turn the clocks back several years, and I would be more than happy to go on exchange with them and have a go!!
Nice looking boat, nice looking plane, and nice weather.
Why not go for it!!
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Whilst not wishing to cross swords with Mr Farley in any way, might I perhaps suggest that a certain small aircraft when sat on its wheels had very little incidence, and that a ski ramp imparted some incidence which got its wings lifting?
Suspicion breeds confidence
If I may....
The Russian carrier operates its Flankers as air defences units and they are moving to smaller and lighter Mig 29s. The current and new Indian vessels are described accordingly as Air Defence Ships, not Strike Carriers.. The Chinese ship is no different. Stobar is the least efficient means of launching fast jets. Our F35 ships will be far more efficient.
I would like to see that video re-run again with with a full war load. Hope they have a good plane guard chopper nearby!
The Russian carrier operates its Flankers as air defences units and they are moving to smaller and lighter Mig 29s. The current and new Indian vessels are described accordingly as Air Defence Ships, not Strike Carriers.. The Chinese ship is no different. Stobar is the least efficient means of launching fast jets. Our F35 ships will be far more efficient.
I would like to see that video re-run again with with a full war load. Hope they have a good plane guard chopper nearby!
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WOD Significant for Ski Jump
Perhaps WOD overlooked.... Quote from USMC Harrier Test Pilot Art Nalls from:
Harrier Operations on a Ski Jump
by Major Art Nalls, USMC, Naval Aviation News, May – June 1990
http://www.history.navy.mil/nan/back.../1990/mj90.pdf
"...The important difference between a ski jump and a flat deck is that the heavier the aircraft, and the higher the wind over the deck, the greater the advantage of using a ski jump.
The aircraft takeoff performance was so dramatically improved that the heaviest Harrier ever flown from any ship – 31,000 pounds gross weight – was launched from Asturias with only a 400-foot deck run. The 31,000 pounds equals the maximum gross weight capability of the AV-8B. To put this In perspective. a “typical” AV-8B with a close air support ordnance load of full fuel, full water, guns, and 12 MK-82 bombs would weigh only about 29,000 pounds. On a typical 59-degree Fahrenheit day, with 35-knot winds over the deck, this load could be launched from a 300-foot deck run with a 12-degree ski jump. The same ordnance load would require the entire 750-foot flight deck of an LHA...."
Harrier Operations on a Ski Jump
by Major Art Nalls, USMC, Naval Aviation News, May – June 1990
http://www.history.navy.mil/nan/back.../1990/mj90.pdf
"...The important difference between a ski jump and a flat deck is that the heavier the aircraft, and the higher the wind over the deck, the greater the advantage of using a ski jump.
The aircraft takeoff performance was so dramatically improved that the heaviest Harrier ever flown from any ship – 31,000 pounds gross weight – was launched from Asturias with only a 400-foot deck run. The 31,000 pounds equals the maximum gross weight capability of the AV-8B. To put this In perspective. a “typical” AV-8B with a close air support ordnance load of full fuel, full water, guns, and 12 MK-82 bombs would weigh only about 29,000 pounds. On a typical 59-degree Fahrenheit day, with 35-knot winds over the deck, this load could be launched from a 300-foot deck run with a 12-degree ski jump. The same ordnance load would require the entire 750-foot flight deck of an LHA...."
