Was this really the only way of dealing with this...?
If he wanted to keep it, there are plenty of people that could have decommisioned it, certificated it and then he could have mounted it on his lounge wall if he wanted to.
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Turn up with an illegal weapon and ask for it to be de-activated and you
could end up in the sort of trouble faced by the subject of this thread, no
matter how honourable your intentions.
could end up in the sort of trouble faced by the subject of this thread, no
matter how honourable your intentions.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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, why was the Sgt still serving with the SAS if he had such an acute brain
injury or psychiatric problem?
As he didn't pack his own kit and hadn't unpacked it either he wasn't "knowingly" in possession of an unregistered firearm, would that make a difference?
Last edited by parabellum; 15th Nov 2012 at 04:33. Reason: Speculation deleted.
He could of got away with it doing this ^^^^^^
This is an Xray of a US inmate with a Desert Eagle hidden up his rectum!
"A guy gave me $100 to smuggle in the gun, and all was cool until the transport van hit a pothole," he said from his infirmary bed. "I realized then that I had a major problem."
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 13th Nov 2012 at 21:32.
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Which presumably leaves only one option ie throw it away. Irresponsible but
better than going to jail for doing the "right thing". If it's not traceable
back to you, is found by the wrong person and used in a crime your a*se is
covered. You may have to live with a twinge of conscience but at least you'll be
free.
better than going to jail for doing the "right thing". If it's not traceable
back to you, is found by the wrong person and used in a crime your a*se is
covered. You may have to live with a twinge of conscience but at least you'll be
free.
Which presumably leaves only one option ie throw it away. Irresponsible but better than going to jail for doing the "right thing".
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Wensleydale - If the reports so far are to be believed this Sgt didn't pack his own kit as he thought he was going back, he didn't so his mates packed his kit, he wasn't able to and hadn't unpacked it when it arrived back in UK, not uncommon as others have attested here, so he didn't knowingly smuggle the weapon into the UK and if he didn't know it was in his kit was he 'in possession'? I agree he was given it, he did own it, but he wasn't 'knowingly' in possession was he, so did he commit a crime?
Maybe you can answer the question I raised earlier:
The people who do surprise me are his mates who packed his kit and left the Glock in with the rest, if they recognised it as such.
Maybe you can answer the question I raised earlier:
As he didn't pack his own kit and hadn't unpacked it either he wasn't
"knowingly" in possession of an unregistered firearm, would that make a
difference?
"knowingly" in possession of an unregistered firearm, would that make a
difference?
Last edited by parabellum; 14th Nov 2012 at 08:51. Reason: sperring.
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Perhaps i am not adequately explaining the principle of an "absolute" offence.
The section of the firearms act that pertains to illegal possession, is absolute.
No defence, no mitigation.
If the weapon is in your possession, you are guilty. Period. The civil courts have their hands tied.
The section of the firearms act that pertains to illegal possession, is absolute.
No defence, no mitigation.
If the weapon is in your possession, you are guilty. Period. The civil courts have their hands tied.
Re handing in guns v throwing them away, certainly the best course of action if you innocently come into possession of an illegal firearm (say clearing the house which you've inherited from your recently deceased grandfather) is to contact the police and arrange for it to be handed in. I'd contact the police HQ and speak to their firearms people first rather than just turning up at the local cop shop and plonking it down on the counter.
It may hurt handing over a highly desirable broom-handled Mauser, for example, but as the alternative could be five years in the pokey it's the only sensible decision.
I once innocently came into possession of a box of WW2 period .38 ammunition tucked away down at the bottom of the small pack in a set of webbing I had bought. I thought about handing it in but I didn't want the hassle, so it now resides at the bottom of Falmouth harbour. Illegal action, I know, but I reckon it is pretty safe where it is. Silly though.
(PS I'd be grateful if nobody shopped me
)
It may hurt handing over a highly desirable broom-handled Mauser, for example, but as the alternative could be five years in the pokey it's the only sensible decision.
I once innocently came into possession of a box of WW2 period .38 ammunition tucked away down at the bottom of the small pack in a set of webbing I had bought. I thought about handing it in but I didn't want the hassle, so it now resides at the bottom of Falmouth harbour. Illegal action, I know, but I reckon it is pretty safe where it is. Silly though.
(PS I'd be grateful if nobody shopped me
)
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 14th Nov 2012 at 09:51.
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Different forces, different rules
Suffolk Constabulary: Disposal of firearms and ammunition
Suffolk Constabulary: Disposal of firearms and ammunition
Are you worried that you are in possession of something you shouldn’t have and have concerns about handing it in to the police?
We receive many guns, ammunition, knives, swords and other weapons. If you make the effort to hand them in you will have acted responsibly and no action will be taken against you. If you retain something you shouldn’t have then you risk prosecution.
Please don’t throw weapons away, as they could end up in the wrong hands. Help make Suffolk safer and hand them in!
We receive many guns, ammunition, knives, swords and other weapons. If you make the effort to hand them in you will have acted responsibly and no action will be taken against you. If you retain something you shouldn’t have then you risk prosecution.
Please don’t throw weapons away, as they could end up in the wrong hands. Help make Suffolk safer and hand them in!
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Or the occasional amnesty
The real world.
A month-long gun amnesty designed to cut armed crime and gang culture is proving a "substantial success", Home Secretary David Blunkett told MPs today.
He said rocket launchers and hand grenades were among more than 7,000 weapons handed over to the police since March 31.
Mr Blunkett said: "The gun amnesty has been a substantial success. At April 23, the police had taken in 7,216 guns and 483,000 rounds of ammunition.
"In the West Midlands and South Wales they have taken in rocket launchers. In Cumbria they have taken in hand grenades.
"We believe the fact that these weapons are not available for use by criminals is a great success."
Under the scheme, people holding illicit firearms and ammunition can hand them over to police without facing prosecution for possession of an illegal weapon.
It was launched ahead of the introduction of tough new sentences for illegal possession, which will see a minimum five-year sentence for those convicted.
The amnesty was agreed by police and Government at a round table meeting with community representatives in January, chaired by Mr Blunkett, shortly after the murders of two teenage girls outside a New Year party in Birmingham.
The last national firearms amnesty in 1996, following the massacre of schoolchildren at Dunblane, saw 23,000 firearms and 700,000 rounds of ammunition surrendered.
He said rocket launchers and hand grenades were among more than 7,000 weapons handed over to the police since March 31.
Mr Blunkett said: "The gun amnesty has been a substantial success. At April 23, the police had taken in 7,216 guns and 483,000 rounds of ammunition.
"In the West Midlands and South Wales they have taken in rocket launchers. In Cumbria they have taken in hand grenades.
"We believe the fact that these weapons are not available for use by criminals is a great success."
Under the scheme, people holding illicit firearms and ammunition can hand them over to police without facing prosecution for possession of an illegal weapon.
It was launched ahead of the introduction of tough new sentences for illegal possession, which will see a minimum five-year sentence for those convicted.
The amnesty was agreed by police and Government at a round table meeting with community representatives in January, chaired by Mr Blunkett, shortly after the murders of two teenage girls outside a New Year party in Birmingham.
The last national firearms amnesty in 1996, following the massacre of schoolchildren at Dunblane, saw 23,000 firearms and 700,000 rounds of ammunition surrendered.
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TTN
I agree this would be the right and responsible action but in doing so you have put yourself at the mercy of the police officer's interpretation of this "unequivocal and clear cut" law. You came into posession of the weapon quite innocently but you are still "in posession" of an illegal firearm.
Catch 22 refers.
Re handing in guns v throwing them away, certainly the best course of action if you innocently come into possession of an illegal firearm (say clearing the house which you've inherited from your recently deceased grandfather) is to contact the police and arrange for it to be handed in. I'd contact the police HQ and speak to their firearms people first rather than just turning up at the local cop shop and plonking it down on the counter.
Catch 22 refers.
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You May be Arrested For Handing A Weapon In To The Police
Read Here
A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".
Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday – after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.
The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.
In a statement read out in court, Mr Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested.
"I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets."
The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.
In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.
"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.
"At the police station, I took the gun out of the bag and placed it on the table so it was pointing towards the wall."
Mr Clarke was then arrested immediately for possession of a firearm at Reigate police station, and taken to the cells.
Defending, Lionel Blackman told the jury Mr Clarke's garden backs onto a public green field, and his garden wall is significantly lower than his neighbours.
He also showed jurors a leaflet printed by Surrey Police explaining to citizens what they can do at a police station, which included "reporting found firearms".
Quizzing officer Garnett, who arrested Mr Clarke, he asked: "Are you aware of any notice issued by Surrey Police, or any publicity given to, telling citizens that if they find a firearm the only thing they should do is not touch it, report it by telephone, and not take it into a police station?"
To which, Mr Garnett replied: "No, I don't believe so."
Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge – therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.
Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.
But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.
He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.
"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.
"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"
Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.
Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.
"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."
Oh yes, this gentleman got a suspended prison term.
A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".
Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday – after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.
The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.
In a statement read out in court, Mr Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested.
"I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets."
The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.
In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.
"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.
"At the police station, I took the gun out of the bag and placed it on the table so it was pointing towards the wall."
Mr Clarke was then arrested immediately for possession of a firearm at Reigate police station, and taken to the cells.
Defending, Lionel Blackman told the jury Mr Clarke's garden backs onto a public green field, and his garden wall is significantly lower than his neighbours.
He also showed jurors a leaflet printed by Surrey Police explaining to citizens what they can do at a police station, which included "reporting found firearms".
Quizzing officer Garnett, who arrested Mr Clarke, he asked: "Are you aware of any notice issued by Surrey Police, or any publicity given to, telling citizens that if they find a firearm the only thing they should do is not touch it, report it by telephone, and not take it into a police station?"
To which, Mr Garnett replied: "No, I don't believe so."
Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge – therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.
Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.
But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.
He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.
"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.
"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"
Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.
Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.
"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."
Oh yes, this gentleman got a suspended prison term.
Last edited by hval; 14th Nov 2012 at 15:15.
hval
I think you'll find, if you do some research .. that he actually had the weapon at home for 4 days before handing it in, which is probably why his ORIGINAL sentence was 5 years, reduced on appeal.
Already covered way up the thread ....posts #31 and #36
I think you'll find, if you do some research .. that he actually had the weapon at home for 4 days before handing it in, which is probably why his ORIGINAL sentence was 5 years, reduced on appeal.
Already covered way up the thread ....posts #31 and #36
Last edited by OmegaV6; 14th Nov 2012 at 15:27.
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Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there
is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.
"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."
is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.
"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."
A question on the case quoted:
Suppose Mr. Clarke left the "bin liner" untouched in his garden and it was later found by someone else to contain the weapon. This someone else calls the police to report what he has found.
Who is guilty of posessing the firearm?
a)Mr. Clarke because the thing is on his property.
b)The "bystander" who called the police? (as the current posessor)
c)All of the above?
Neither of them appears to have a defence, no mitigation, no excuse.
Maybe this law is too Absolute.
Last edited by Shack37; 14th Nov 2012 at 15:36.