WWII carrier pigeon message discovered in Surrey chimney
Gentleman Aviator
"Experts said the spelling of Serjeant was significant, because the RAF used J, while the Army used G."
One remembers when they came to Ireland - can't recall which location - they had to repaint all the Sgts' Mess signs to become Sjts' Mess.
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A later news report has quoted the farmer as saying he had found it in 1982, but couldn't get the Government interested then, so he put it up in a box.
I wonder if the UK Government was a bit distracted in 1982?
I wonder if the UK Government was a bit distracted in 1982?
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 3rd Nov 2012 at 09:30.
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The message was later found to mean: "Two pints of milk, one small loaf and a bag of spuds, please".
As teeteringhead has pointed out the spelling hangs on in some of the more traditional regiments, and certainly 'serjeant' was still widely used in the army in WW2. Think it varied from regiment to regiment, as a photo of my father in the Scots Guards in 1928 shows his rank as 'sergeant'. On the other hand I have a copy The RAF Pocket Book, 1937 (A.P. 1081) which uses the spelling 'sergeant', so I reckon this 'expert' is wrong, as they so often are!
Speculation on what is says
CG
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Speculation on what is says .... "This new Ptarmigan radio gear is ****e. Send more pigeons. Standby, Out, Wait Out, Over and Out." c1984.
"Bowman radio kit is also sh!te. Send even more pigeons."
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Bowman radio kit is also sh!te. Send even more pigeons
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It's actually quite easy to decode once you have the key..
A=1
B=2
C=3
Etc
It then makes sense
Hvpkd then translates to 8 22 16 11 4
Now on a Chinese menu 8 is Beef Curry, 22 is Fried as opposed to boiled rice (that would be 21) 16 is pancake rolls, 11 is prawn crackers and 4 is a soy sauce dip.
So it's nothing but a takeaway lunch order.
A=1
B=2
C=3
Etc
It then makes sense
Hvpkd then translates to 8 22 16 11 4
Now on a Chinese menu 8 is Beef Curry, 22 is Fried as opposed to boiled rice (that would be 21) 16 is pancake rolls, 11 is prawn crackers and 4 is a soy sauce dip.
So it's nothing but a takeaway lunch order.
Last edited by NutLoose; 3rd Nov 2012 at 13:04.
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I was up very late last night de-coding the message and although I'm not an expert, this is what it says:-
'Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance!'
'Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance!'
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Could be completely wrong but I don't think OTP was used by the allies during WW2.
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Here is a report which has a bit more detail on the event
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Radio 4 had a terrific old lady on this morning who had worked at one of Bletchley's satellites. Eddie Mair had cocked his timing up as usual, so much so that she was given about one minute at the end of the programme to explain her work on the enigma machine! The lady was fantastic and very articulate and deserved a programme to herself, but as usual the programme had given up the majority of its time to the drivelling of various politicians. Why cant the BBC understand we are not all obsessed with the minutiae of politics and find other news items a lot more interesting?
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There has got to be a conspiracy theory to this story now; so:
a) Is it really that they cannot decypher it, (unlikely IMHO) or b) They do not want to announce to the world something significant or embarrassing?
a) Is it really that they cannot decypher it, (unlikely IMHO) or b) They do not want to announce to the world something significant or embarrassing?
Tiger_mate,
Why is it unlikely? If the message is compiled using a one-time pad then yes it would be unbreakable. See following for earlier Poem Codes and references to One Time Pads.
Poem code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One-time pad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Intelligence agencies still use one time pads. Anyone with a simple short wave receiver can pick up the transmissions but the messages are compiled by using a one-time pad. If they are no errors made in generating and distribution of the one-time pad key material then it should remain secure.
Cuban agent Ana Belen Montes failed to follow correct one time pad procedures resulting in messages being read.
See FBI Affidavit
http://cryptome.org/montes/montes092101.pdf
FBI — FBI 100 - Ana Montes
Other examples of one-time pad usage at following post link.
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4196...ml#post5783949
Why is it unlikely? If the message is compiled using a one-time pad then yes it would be unbreakable. See following for earlier Poem Codes and references to One Time Pads.
Poem code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One-time pad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Intelligence agencies still use one time pads. Anyone with a simple short wave receiver can pick up the transmissions but the messages are compiled by using a one-time pad. If they are no errors made in generating and distribution of the one-time pad key material then it should remain secure.
Cuban agent Ana Belen Montes failed to follow correct one time pad procedures resulting in messages being read.
See FBI Affidavit
http://cryptome.org/montes/montes092101.pdf
FBI — FBI 100 - Ana Montes
Other examples of one-time pad usage at following post link.
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4196...ml#post5783949
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On a serious historical note, my father (S/Ldr on Lancasters, POW from 1943) was closely involved with experimental work with pigeons in the earlier stages of WWII before more sophisticated homing devices became available.
Realising that too many crews were getting lost on the return from a bombing mission, and frequently abandoning the aircraft as it ran out of fuel, sometimes over the North Sea, the RAF decided to see if pigeons' remarkable abilities could be harnessed in some way.
Initial trials were very simple. Pigeons were based and trained at a bomber station, and once they had demonstrated that they would invariably return there when released at 100-200 miles away they would be tested in live aircraft.
Initially the idea was that they would have about 50ft of strong twine attached to one leg, and would be released through the DV window, with the aircraft flying as slowly as possible without stalling. The bird would then head for the base, and all the pilot had to do was to follow it, using a hand torch, held by the navigator or forward gunner, at night to illuminate a fluorescent spot painted on the bird's anus. However this scheme very soon came up against a fatal flaw; the little birds got tired quite quickly trying to keep ahead of the aircraft. The speed was too much for them, and they would end up being towed by the aircraft.
Where my father came in was his brilliant suggestion that the birds should be trained to move about on the top of the panel, indicating the way home by moving to left or right. If they stayed in the middle the aircraft was on the right heading.
This worked extremely well, and saved many lives.
The whole project was kept top secret, and to this day few if any of those involved have ever talked about it. The cover story was often that the bird was for carrying messages back. But it is now 70 years since those dreadful days, and I think we can feel free to ensure that the work is duly acknowledged.
Realising that too many crews were getting lost on the return from a bombing mission, and frequently abandoning the aircraft as it ran out of fuel, sometimes over the North Sea, the RAF decided to see if pigeons' remarkable abilities could be harnessed in some way.
Initial trials were very simple. Pigeons were based and trained at a bomber station, and once they had demonstrated that they would invariably return there when released at 100-200 miles away they would be tested in live aircraft.
Initially the idea was that they would have about 50ft of strong twine attached to one leg, and would be released through the DV window, with the aircraft flying as slowly as possible without stalling. The bird would then head for the base, and all the pilot had to do was to follow it, using a hand torch, held by the navigator or forward gunner, at night to illuminate a fluorescent spot painted on the bird's anus. However this scheme very soon came up against a fatal flaw; the little birds got tired quite quickly trying to keep ahead of the aircraft. The speed was too much for them, and they would end up being towed by the aircraft.
Where my father came in was his brilliant suggestion that the birds should be trained to move about on the top of the panel, indicating the way home by moving to left or right. If they stayed in the middle the aircraft was on the right heading.
This worked extremely well, and saved many lives.
The whole project was kept top secret, and to this day few if any of those involved have ever talked about it. The cover story was often that the bird was for carrying messages back. But it is now 70 years since those dreadful days, and I think we can feel free to ensure that the work is duly acknowledged.
Last edited by Capot; 24th Nov 2012 at 15:16.
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I certainly remember in 1957/8 as SDO at Chivenor having to be instructed by the Station Signals Officer in the use of one time pads in case a secret signal arrived over a weekend, which fortunately never happened to me.