Gloster Javelin

[NutLoose]

Errm there might be

[Alex Crawford]

Hi,

I'm gathering material for a book on the Javelin and would like to get in touch with those who flew and maintained these aircraft.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Alex
[email protected]

[MPN11]

Background reading, I guess, but may be of some use. I arrived at Tengah in Oct 67, as 64 Sqn were disbanding, and had about 6 months controlling 60 Sqn.

Photos are cr@p, I regret, as I only had a little pocket-sized Minolata running on 8mm film … they're attached for what they are worth (£0.02p?)

So … on disbandment 64's aircraft were towed away to the dispersal in front of the Officers' Mess (Foxtrot?) and 60 kept going. Just. Almost once a week over the ensuing months, one of 2 things happened:

1. On landing, one of the main gear down-locks failed, the leg collapsed and the aircraft skated off the runway into the grass or the massive monsoon drain.
2. On startup, a blockage in a vent resulted in the Avpin (?) starter blowing the bottom off the aircraft, along with the pair of 200 gallon slipper tanks which duly crashed to the floor.

New controllers were briefed to expect these events, and were very quick on the Crash Alarm in consequence.

A sad tale I do recall was when, having recovered and repaired an aircraft after event 1, on startup for the test flight it suffered event 2. IIRC it was towed over to Foxtrot, and one of the best of 64's aircraft was brought back into use as the replacement.

Eventually, and without much ceremony, in April 1968 all the aircraft ended up in Foxtrot (overlooked by the Mess Bar) where they were then hammered into scrap metal by local civilians using sledgehammers and other crude implements. Not a pretty sight whilst trying to enjoy a beer!

One of them (S - XH908) was towed off to the Crash Crew training area for further indignities.

(Edit. "T" is of course a T. Mk 3 T-Bird and not an F.A.W. 9R)

[Alex Crawford]

Hi MPN11,

Thanks for the reply. From what I have gathered engine blow outs/fires seem to have been a common occurrence.

Alex

[MPN11]

Only about once a fortnight at Tengah in those days.
Perhaps it was the spiders?

Oh, don't forget the paint. The palest grey and green ever seen. In fact, on some aircraft, bordering on overall pale grey!! When one came out from a major, resprayed, it looked quite 'foreign'

BTW, my room in the Mess (#48) overlooked the 'scrapyard'. Quite a depressing sight.

[Fareastdriver]

I wonder if anybody here can help? I am looking for a picture of a Javelin refuelling from a Valiant taken from a similar position as this one of a Lightning.



I have pictures of the operation taken from the side; this is the sort of picture I am after.

[Alex Crawford]

I haven't come across any Javelin refuelling photos. Care to share some of what you have?

Alex

[GGR]

Slightly off thread but I recall being at RAF Stafford in I think 1968 sitting my entrance exams and having a grandstand view of the static display Javelin. I could almost touch the thing from my second floor room. After a sleepless night stressing over the impending tests I looked out to see the the Javelin in sillouette against the autumn sunrise. Never forget that. A reminder if needed, as to why I was there.

GGR

[NutherA2]

MPN11

Edit. "T" is of course a T. Mk 3 T-Bird and not an F.A.W. 9R

"T" is certainly a FAW9 or 9R, the T3 didn't have Firestreak pylons or an AI Radome. I can't make out the airframe number from the photo (perhaps XH843?), but the only T3 I flew on 60 was XH390; I can't be sure of the side letter, but during my time (63 - 66) I think it was "O".

[CoffmanStarter]

AC ... Here is a pic from the 214 Squadron Web Page but unfortunately not from the angle FED is looking for.

214 Squadron : The Valiant Years

[Fareastdriver]

That's an old picture even in Valiant terms. Black registrations under both wings. They went to light blue underneath only one in 1960.

This is the couple I have.

[ancientaviator62]

Alex,
glad to hear that a new book about the 'Jav' is in the offing. I worked on them (Mk 7 and 9) on 33 at Middleton St George as an Air Radar Mech. It was an 'interesting' a/c for both aircrew and groundcrew ! As I recall we had cartridge starters for our a/c except for the T bird which was Avpin and a smaller 'banger'. Several instances of the system opening up the belly on start up as the banger exploded. And of the spare banger in the stowage going of when the a/c was taxyiing. 'Them was the days' !

[WH904]

The Javelins that I'd really like to see much more of, are the exotic RAE aircraft. The famous red and white FAW9 XH897 was photographed beautifully whilst in service but the photos seem to have disappeared without trace - I last saw them in Adrian Balch's "Testing Colours" book. Then of course there's the beautiful flourescent orange XA778. A top class photo was taken of this machine by Glosters, on roll-out, but I haven't seen the photo for many years (I think it was in an issue of "Air Inernational" many years back).

Even more obscure was the other RAE machine (the serial escapes me at the moment) which was painted mostly white, with various other colours applied at different times. Never, ever see photos of this aircraft

[Alex Crawford]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

CoffmanStarter and fareastdriver thanks for posting the photos. These are the first air-to air refuelling ones I've seen. Very interesting.

ancientaviator62, if there's any particular instance you remember while with 33 Sqn I'd love to hear about it. First hand accounts really let the reader know what it was like to fly/maintain these aircraft, rather than the official blurb.

I'd be interested in the AAEE/RAE colour schemes as well. They would make great colour side view drawings.

Regards,

Alex
[email protected]

[Fitter2]

As I recall we had cartridge starters for our a/c except for the T bird which
was Avpin and a smaller 'banger'

Other way round, surely. All the 60/64 Sqn Mk9 I saw off were avpin. Startup with the bottom panel off to put out the avpin fire if it went wrong, then 18 (or was it 20?) Dzus fasteners to secure the panel with two Sapphires whining away, at night, on a scramble. Happy days, but I don't think the Tiger beer consumption has dimmed the memory totally.

Whereas the cartridge T3s disappeared in a cloud of smoke on start.

[NutherA2]

cartridge starters for our a/c except for the T bird which was Avpin

Other way round, AA62, Javelins Mk 1 to 6 used cartridges, the bigger engines fitted to the FAW7, 8 & 9 had the avpin starters.

[ancientaviator62]

Thanks for the correction ref the bangers/avpin chaps. My Javelin memories may well be partially merging with the Hunter/Lightning ones. Funny old thing memory ! I also seem to recall a Javelin landing at night in the barrier at Leeming when ATC left it up at both ends !.

[Alex Crawford]

Hi AA62,

Javelin could have been this one on 2 March 1961. Don't have crew details yet.

XA752, FAW.4, 72 Sqn. Hitbarrier on approach at night and undercarriage leg collapsed on landing,Leeming. Not repaired.

Alex

[Shackman]

Air Clues had a good article in the 'I learnt about flying' series about how (not) to loop a Javelin which for some reason always stuck in my mind - mainly 'cos I knew one of the guys involved. I think it was a mid '70's edition, but could have been later.

[Tankertrashnav]

I was at Seletar when the Javelins were at Tengah. Seletar's runway divided the station into East Camp and West Camp, with a road crossing controlled by lights.

One night with the runway closed and unlit an airman was sauntering across the runway back to his billet when all of a sudden a Javelin appeared out of the darkness, screamed over his head and landed shortly down the runway, eventually coming safely to a halt shortly before the far threshold.

Can't remember the reason for this, but as Tengah was only a few miles to the west there must have been a pressing reason to get on the ground. Certainly stirred the airman up a bit