What's The Best Allied Aircraft That Didn't Go To War?

[Wensleydale]

....more prosaic but very practical. I give you the Bristol Brigand.

Used in air policing operations in Aden......

[cribble]

Indeed, the Vampire saw service in Rhodesia; not in a civil war but in counter-terrorist ops, until foreign interference prevailed.

Now the country is a model of democracy. I am sure the said interfering state is proud.

[Wholigan]

And the Vampire also saw operations with the Egyptian Air Force against Israel and with the Indian Air Force against Pakistan.

[Whenurhappy]

The talk of the supposedly superior German aviation industry is just that...talk. The Reichs Luftministrie (RLM) could hardly organise a Fest/coup in a Bierkeller and the concept of dispersion/shadow factories/underground facilties wasn't appreciated until c 1943, when the RAF and USAAF 'Hard Rain' made life difficult for the Luftwaffe and supporting industries. According to Speer, 'less than 2%' of aircraft production was moved into hardened or dispersed facilities and the CBO made movement of materials, aircraft and fuel problematic, to say the least. Near where I was based recently, there were 'factories' scattered in the forests and in the hills - small wooden huts, benches, vices, perhaps some electric power - producing Jumo engine components & ME 262 airframe component, by hand. QC - nul!

Yes, those pesky Nazis did develop some extremly innovative aircraft, but they were then exploited out of desperation and with immense political pressure (such as the direction to develop the ME 262 as a fighter-bomber - largely cheerfully ignored by the Luftwaffe) that they had almost no effect on the outcome of the war.

Here's an extract for a SLT 'away day' a couple of years ago on the German aircraft and weapons programme:

Key Lesson: Although emerging technologies, most clearly demonstrated by the potential of the ME 262, worried the Allied intelligence community, their operational and tactical impact had no lasting effect and the ac were no subsititute to sufficient 'conventional' platforms in the hands of well-trained and experienced crews. In sum, new technologies delivered too few, too late.

But I have to agree, the ME 262 is the sexiest wartime aircraft - I was looking over one at the Deutsche Museum iN Munich a few weeks ago.


WP

[Pontius Navigator]

Saunders Roe SR177? Bristol 188?

And therein the demise of the British aircraft industry? A beautiful flying boat and a supersonic rocket fighter. A huge 6-engined transport and a supersonic research aircraft.

Vickers with bombers, fighters and transports. De Haviland with a jet transport and fighters.

Armstrong Whitworth with a wheel barrow.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Bristol Brigand

Quite apart from Wensleydale's point about Aden (I think it was actually the Malayan Emergency), this aircraft was (according to people who flew it) terrible. I quote a Brigand pilot: "My navigator used to refer to the kite as the 'black bastard' (NB the aircraft in the Far East had the mostly-black-with-white-top surfaces paint scheme, as designed for the Tiger Force) and I tended to agree with him". I can't remember the full account as I don't have the book in front of me, but the over-riding impression was that the aircraft had numerous vices and few redeeming features. Wikipedia states that the problems included air brake failures leading to structural failures, propeller blades shedding and hydraulic fires caused by heat from the cannon being fired..."In effect, the Brigands were shooting themselves down".

The talk of the supposedly superior German aviation industry is just that...talk

Noone would deny the stupidity which abounded in the corridors of the RLM, but the people involved in designing and building aircraft worked wonders despite the incompetence on high (or perhaps the uselessness of the RLM made it easier, because the industry didn't waste any time listening to them). Despite all the difficulties, the German aircraft industry delivered ever-increasing numbers of aircraft to the Luftwaffe, and quality control - while perhaps not ideal - was never a major problem in the way that it was in Japan in the last year of the war. The remarkable output of new aircraft only slowed when Allied and Soviet troops began over-running the factories in early 1945.

[Andu]

Didn't the Vampire see action in the Rhodesian civil war?

Some of the Rhodesian Vampires' 20mm Hispanos saw service mounted laterally on the floors of Alouettes. A sort of Rhodesian rotary wing Puff the Magic Dragon..

[Wensleydale]

Wensleydale's point about Aden (I think it was actually the Malayan Emergency)

Brigands equipped No 8 Sqn (Aden's Own) and was used on ops in the region. The attached photo shows the arrival of the Sqn's first Brigand which was written off after an argument with the radio mast behind SHQ at Khormaksar.

I do concur that it was not well liked - as was the Buckmaster that was used for training and communications at the same time.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Brigands equipped No 8 Sqn (Aden's Own) and was used on ops in the region

Oops, sorry!

[hval]

TorqueOfTheDevil,

You are not incorrect. The Brigand was also used in Singapore/ Malaya. 45 Sqn & 84 Sqn.

[Rosevidney1]

Indeed it did - as did anything able to fly.

[air pig]

What about the Sea Vixen, only action as far as I know was bombing the Torrey Canyon off Cornwall in 1967 or the Seahawk by A W

[cuefaye]

air pig

I think the Torrey Canyon was attended to By Buccaneers and Hunters - no Sea Vixens involved?

[air pig]

I stand corrected about the Torrey canyon, but did the sea vixen take part in any actions/

For a sexy World War 2 aircraft both of which were operational, either the He 219 Owl or the Arado 234 2 and 4 engined jet bombers

[Buster Hyman]

CAAC Mustang. The ultimate refinement of the P51.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Sea Vixens - Torrey Canyon

According to these, Sea Vixens were used to attack the Torrey Canyon.

Sinking of the Torrey Canyon

Torrey Canyon - Scillonian History

[Pontius Navigator]

Sea Vixens also used in Confrontation although no shots fire AFAIK.

Now the companion thread might be the worst . . .

How about the Argosy C1 bomber variant

[BEagle]

Saunders Roe SR177? Bristol 188?

SR177 never flew.

Bristol T188 was useless even as a research aircraft. According to a colleague who was involved in the programme, by the time it had reached altitude and set up for a test run, there was barely time for a single test point before it had to come home on fumes.... 260KIAS take-off speed with about 20-25 min endurance, it could only manage about 2 minutes at M2.0. Looked nice though:

[ARXW]

back to the question



F8F Bearcat. Hello????

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by BEagle

SR177 never flew.

Made the model though. Tail heavy wouldn't sit on its nose-wheel.