Heads Up - Channel 5 Series : Heroes of the Sky
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I saw the program last night and having been in his company once and listened to many tales of his good and bad points I do not believe even his greatest critics would have wished such a dire program about him.
IMHO the programme was not well made, and contained a number of inaccuracies by comparison with the accounts in the numerous books in which he features. I am not sure he would have been my childhood hero had I known what I know now, but then Neville Duke was another childhood hero, and what a great guy he turned out to be when I eventually met him.
They reckoned one of the advantages Bader had in combat was the fact he had lost his legs, rather like a modern G suit he was able to withstand greater G levels in combat than his adversaries as he had no pooling of blood issues in his lower extremities, hence he could withstand turns that would have others blacking out.
Also did I hear Douglas Bader in one of the dramatised bits talking about 'planes'? Oh and they didn't wear queen's crown anodised badges in 1940.
Oh dear, I could go on but I'm starting to sound like a bit of an anorak here, but really, it was a pretty poor effort.
Edited to add, apart of course from the contributions from the pilots who were around at the time, including Bader's wingman - those were excellent
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 25th Sep 2012 at 20:17.
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I have to agree with the comments about Keith Park.
I do volunteer work in an old people's home and one of the fellows who I see there, whose name is Monty, was Keith Park's dentist. (OK, I'll agree, on the three degrees of separation scale, a pretty tenuous one.) Monty's an interesting character - 96 going on 65 if you get my drift; still drives his own car, bright as a button, and has quite a few stories about working the system to his own advantage during the war, late in the war, by then a Sqn Ldr, commandeering a Mosquito (with pilot) every weekend to visit a girlfriend in Glasgow (from near London) as he couldn't make the journey both ways by train, but train back to base was do-able if he could fly up by Mosquito on Friday afternoon.
He speaks very highly of Park while Park was AOC Malta (where he was sent [supposedly into career oblivion] after daring to play a major role in winning the BoB, but where he played a relatively major (again successful) role in the defence of Malta in what was a very critical period of the Middle East war).
Monty tells of Keith Park turning up one at the day at the base dental section to have a filling done and asking Monty if he'd like to join him on his pinnace the following day.
Flight Lieutenants who are invited to join the AOC anywhere do not say 'no',so whatever he was doing the following day was dropped. He joined Park, not knowing that the AOC, who, because of security considerations, could not say that he was inviting him to join him to witness the whole Italian fleet steaming into Valetta Harbour under the black flag of surrender.
I'm still a little awe-struck when I think that (a) I know a man who's peered into the mouth of of Sir Keith Park, and (b) that that same man was one of the 50 or so people who actually witnessed the surrender of the Italian fleet in 1943.
I do volunteer work in an old people's home and one of the fellows who I see there, whose name is Monty, was Keith Park's dentist. (OK, I'll agree, on the three degrees of separation scale, a pretty tenuous one.) Monty's an interesting character - 96 going on 65 if you get my drift; still drives his own car, bright as a button, and has quite a few stories about working the system to his own advantage during the war, late in the war, by then a Sqn Ldr, commandeering a Mosquito (with pilot) every weekend to visit a girlfriend in Glasgow (from near London) as he couldn't make the journey both ways by train, but train back to base was do-able if he could fly up by Mosquito on Friday afternoon.
He speaks very highly of Park while Park was AOC Malta (where he was sent [supposedly into career oblivion] after daring to play a major role in winning the BoB, but where he played a relatively major (again successful) role in the defence of Malta in what was a very critical period of the Middle East war).
Monty tells of Keith Park turning up one at the day at the base dental section to have a filling done and asking Monty if he'd like to join him on his pinnace the following day.
Flight Lieutenants who are invited to join the AOC anywhere do not say 'no',so whatever he was doing the following day was dropped. He joined Park, not knowing that the AOC, who, because of security considerations, could not say that he was inviting him to join him to witness the whole Italian fleet steaming into Valetta Harbour under the black flag of surrender.
I'm still a little awe-struck when I think that (a) I know a man who's peered into the mouth of of Sir Keith Park, and (b) that that same man was one of the 50 or so people who actually witnessed the surrender of the Italian fleet in 1943.
More bang for your buck
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A much better programme than last week, not that that would be difficult, there again a much more interesting character. Shame that Channel 5 seems only to employ actors from the school of bad acting though.
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Still pretty average though! Screwball, one of my childhood heroes, came across a bit weird 'til my wife asked - 'do you think he was autistic?'
Certainly fits the profile, or maybe Aspergers, especially when it came to the speech he made back in Canada, with a certain lack of sensitivity!
Still a top bloke who did the job when it counted.
Certainly fits the profile, or maybe Aspergers, especially when it came to the speech he made back in Canada, with a certain lack of sensitivity!
Still a top bloke who did the job when it counted.
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I agree ... 30 odd Combat Kills to his credit ... remarkable 
On the "sensitivity" front ... DB apparently had his moments !
During a visit to Munich, Germany, as a guest of Adolf Galland, DB apparently walked into a room full of ex-Luftwaffe pilots and said, "My God, I had no idea we left so many of you bastards alive".
On the "sensitivity" front ... DB apparently had his moments !
During a visit to Munich, Germany, as a guest of Adolf Galland, DB apparently walked into a room full of ex-Luftwaffe pilots and said, "My God, I had no idea we left so many of you bastards alive".
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W/O Norman Cyril Jackson VC R.A.F.V.R.
Much better programme this evening from Lord Ashcroft ...
A very brave man amongst the other brave men of Bomber Command ...
Coff.
A very brave man amongst the other brave men of Bomber Command ...
The KING has been graciously pleased to confer the VICTORIA CROSS on the undermentioned officer in recognition of most conspicuous bravery :-
905192 Sergeant (Now Warrant Officer) Norman Cyril Jackson R.A.F.V.R., 106 Squadron.
This airman was the flight engineer in a Lancaster detailed to attack Schweinfurt on the night of 26th April 1944. Bombs were dropped successfully and the aircraft was climbing out of the target area. Suddenly it was attacked by a fighter at about 20,000 feet. The captain took evading action at once, but the enemy secured many hits. A fire started near a petrol tank on the upper surface of the starboard wing, between the fuselage and the inner engine.
Sergeant Jackson was thrown to the floor during the engagement. Wounds which he received from shell splinters in the right leg and shoulder were probably sustained at that time. Recovering himself, he remarked that he could deal with the fire on the wing and obtained his captain's permission to try to put out the flames.
Pushing a hand fire-extinguisher into the top of his life-saving jacket and clipping on his parachute pack, Sergeant Jackson jettisoned the escape hatch above the pilot's head. He then started to climb out of the cockpit and back along the top of the fuselage to the starboard wing. Before he could leave the fuselage his parachute pack opened and the whole canopy and rigging lines spilled into the cockpit.
Undeterred, Sergeant Jackson continued. The pilot (Tony Mifflin), bomb aimer (Maurice Toft) and navigator (Frank Higgins) gathered the parachute together and held on to the rigging lines, paying them out as the airman crawled aft. Eventually he slipped and, falling from the fuselage to the starboard wing, grasped an air intake on the leading edge of the wing. He succeeded in clinging on but lost the extinguisher, which was blown away.
By this time, the fire had spread rapidly and Sergeant Jackson was involved. His face, hands and clothing were severely burnt. Unable to retain his hold he was swept through the flames and over the trailing edge of the wing, dragging his parachute behind. When last seen it was only partly inflated and was burning in a number of places.
Realising that the fire could not be controlled, the captain gave the order to abandon aircraft. Four of the remaining members of the crew landed safely. The captain and rear gunner have not been accounted for.
Sergeant Jackson was unable to control his descent and landed heavily. He sustained a broken ankle, his right eye was closed through burns and his hands were useless. These injuries, together with the wounds received earlier, reduced him to a pitiable state. At daybreak he crawled to the nearest village, where he was taken prisoner. He bore the intense pain and discomfort of the journey to Dulag Luft with magnificent fortitude. After ten months in hospital he made a good recovery, though his hands require further treatment and are only of limited use.
This airman's attempt to extinguish the fire and save the aircraft and crew from falling into enemy hands was an act of outstanding gallantry. To venture outside, when travelling at 200 miles an hour, at a great height and in intense cold, was an almost incredible feat. Had he succeeded in subduing the flames, there was little or no prospect of his regaining the cockpit. The spilling of his parachute and the risk of grave damage to its canopy reduced his chances of survival to a minimum. By his ready willingness to face these dangers he set an example of self-sacrifice which will ever be remembered.
905192 Sergeant (Now Warrant Officer) Norman Cyril Jackson R.A.F.V.R., 106 Squadron.
This airman was the flight engineer in a Lancaster detailed to attack Schweinfurt on the night of 26th April 1944. Bombs were dropped successfully and the aircraft was climbing out of the target area. Suddenly it was attacked by a fighter at about 20,000 feet. The captain took evading action at once, but the enemy secured many hits. A fire started near a petrol tank on the upper surface of the starboard wing, between the fuselage and the inner engine.
Sergeant Jackson was thrown to the floor during the engagement. Wounds which he received from shell splinters in the right leg and shoulder were probably sustained at that time. Recovering himself, he remarked that he could deal with the fire on the wing and obtained his captain's permission to try to put out the flames.
Pushing a hand fire-extinguisher into the top of his life-saving jacket and clipping on his parachute pack, Sergeant Jackson jettisoned the escape hatch above the pilot's head. He then started to climb out of the cockpit and back along the top of the fuselage to the starboard wing. Before he could leave the fuselage his parachute pack opened and the whole canopy and rigging lines spilled into the cockpit.
Undeterred, Sergeant Jackson continued. The pilot (Tony Mifflin), bomb aimer (Maurice Toft) and navigator (Frank Higgins) gathered the parachute together and held on to the rigging lines, paying them out as the airman crawled aft. Eventually he slipped and, falling from the fuselage to the starboard wing, grasped an air intake on the leading edge of the wing. He succeeded in clinging on but lost the extinguisher, which was blown away.
By this time, the fire had spread rapidly and Sergeant Jackson was involved. His face, hands and clothing were severely burnt. Unable to retain his hold he was swept through the flames and over the trailing edge of the wing, dragging his parachute behind. When last seen it was only partly inflated and was burning in a number of places.
Realising that the fire could not be controlled, the captain gave the order to abandon aircraft. Four of the remaining members of the crew landed safely. The captain and rear gunner have not been accounted for.
Sergeant Jackson was unable to control his descent and landed heavily. He sustained a broken ankle, his right eye was closed through burns and his hands were useless. These injuries, together with the wounds received earlier, reduced him to a pitiable state. At daybreak he crawled to the nearest village, where he was taken prisoner. He bore the intense pain and discomfort of the journey to Dulag Luft with magnificent fortitude. After ten months in hospital he made a good recovery, though his hands require further treatment and are only of limited use.
This airman's attempt to extinguish the fire and save the aircraft and crew from falling into enemy hands was an act of outstanding gallantry. To venture outside, when travelling at 200 miles an hour, at a great height and in intense cold, was an almost incredible feat. Had he succeeded in subduing the flames, there was little or no prospect of his regaining the cockpit. The spilling of his parachute and the risk of grave damage to its canopy reduced his chances of survival to a minimum. By his ready willingness to face these dangers he set an example of self-sacrifice which will ever be remembered.
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Much better programme this evening from Lord Ashcroft ...
At least they didn't mention Gibson although he appeared on a couple of the photographs that were shown on the program.
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I thought last night's programme was the worst so far, 15 mins of good factual information about the crew and the last mission the rest was just condescending claptrap the worst bit being, as they left the target on fire, "their radio was knocked out so they couldn't call for help" which gave me the inane vision of a bright red aircraft with a big fire hose rushing to the rescue with blue flashing lights blazing. I shan't bother to watch any more episodes.
What is Ashcroft's academic historical background. In this context seems to have appeared from nowhere, although I believe he was a major contributor to the Bomber Command Memorial. Wikipedia shows him as "international businessman, philanthropist and politician". Highest academic achievement appears to be HNC in Business Studies from what was then Mid Essex Technical College. certainly there appears to be no background in TV presentation, which may account for much, or not a lot.
Last edited by Wander00; 5th Oct 2012 at 16:19.
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Heros of the Sky
It is possible that these are not the best progs to cover this type of subject, but at least the basic facts are there and at least they are trying to bring these brave men to a wider public. Remember not all members of the public are not a bunch of spotters like you lot and me as well.
The fact that blokes like Burling and Jackson have been given their time in the spotlight we should not be slagging this off, and I dont care if you are seeing a model Spitfire MK IX and not a Spitfire Vc Trop, it getting the story out to the wider public.
Yes it could have been better made and some better facts, but you need to look at these progs as windows into a important but often over looked area of RAF History other than Gibson/Bader/Johnson.
I bet there are more than one or two on this forum that have learnt something new from these programs.
The fact that blokes like Burling and Jackson have been given their time in the spotlight we should not be slagging this off, and I dont care if you are seeing a model Spitfire MK IX and not a Spitfire Vc Trop, it getting the story out to the wider public.
Yes it could have been better made and some better facts, but you need to look at these progs as windows into a important but often over looked area of RAF History other than Gibson/Bader/Johnson.
I bet there are more than one or two on this forum that have learnt something new from these programs.
Couldn't agree more SCAFITE. I found the really depressing thing about the Jackson programme was that much of the dialogue was lost in the barrage of background noise effects/music?
What a hero though!
What a hero though!
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Coff, I believe there was a small memorial tribute in the hangar at St Athans when I did my mechs course to his VC Award.