The South China Sea's Gathering Storm
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by fitliker
Will the Carrier be allowed into Hong Kong for a port visit or will they be banned like other nations navies from spending money in the local economies ?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Northumberland, England
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by Asturias56
"USN sends a lone destroyer near one of “their islands” and the Chinese military along with their diplomatic corps go ape shit. U.K. sends a carrier battle group and the Chinese don’t even take notice, nah, don’t buy it."
that's because the "lone destroyer" is backed by the whole might of the USN and USA. A British CBG is much smaller that a US one, will have a dozen or so strike aircraft and represents about 50% of the whole UK navy.
Racedo is right here - it's politicians willy-waving and it would have the same outcome as 1941
that's because the "lone destroyer" is backed by the whole might of the USN and USA. A British CBG is much smaller that a US one, will have a dozen or so strike aircraft and represents about 50% of the whole UK navy.
Racedo is right here - it's politicians willy-waving and it would have the same outcome as 1941
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by Tocsin
And that is why there will be a shed-load of US Marines and their F-35Bs as part of the well-publicised package - Racedo right? YGTBSM!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by racedo
I love your optimism, in reality they can just ignore, unless RN is part of a USN deployment then it really has zero impact.
The "we have a big aircraft carrier" has zero impact when people you are challenging make you aware that in the event of any conflict it will be "we had a big aircraft carrier",
The Prince of Wales and The Repulse on 7th of December 1941 supposedly were a big show of RN power in Asia, couple of days later both were on the bottom of the sea.
The "we have a big aircraft carrier" has zero impact when people you are challenging make you aware that in the event of any conflict it will be "we had a big aircraft carrier",
The Prince of Wales and The Repulse on 7th of December 1941 supposedly were a big show of RN power in Asia, couple of days later both were on the bottom of the sea.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1LM017
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
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The Chinese are notoriously thin-skinned - they get bent out of shape about things that to us, seem totally trivial.
It doesn't change the fact that an small RN carrier group in the S China Sea would find it hard to survive if the balloon did go up
It doesn't change the fact that an small RN carrier group in the S China Sea would find it hard to survive if the balloon did go up
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by Asturias56
The Chinese are notoriously thin-skinned - they get bent out of shape about things that to us, seem totally trivial.
It doesn't change the fact that an small RN carrier group in the S China Sea would find it hard to survive if the balloon did go up
It doesn't change the fact that an small RN carrier group in the S China Sea would find it hard to survive if the balloon did go up
As to survivability, I'm no naval warfare expert and I suspect neither are you. What I do know is survival/effectiveness is tied to tactics and risk aversion. A CBG, be it the UK's or the USN isn't going to sail just offshore of China where it would incur a savage result. I suspect it would operate in the outer island regions where the full brunt of the Chinese military would have issues concentrating.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by Asturias56
Of course they might just "welcome" them off Singapore and trail behind about 10 kms all the way round their deployment
Stuff like that happens during peacetime FONOPS.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by racedo
So do others have the resources and a willingness to trade. US economy is 16 times bigger than Australia and remove the Chinese trade surplus and Australia is in defecit
China touchy ? Think you need to look at all Govts as they are touchy.
China touchy ? Think you need to look at all Govts as they are touchy.
Once that is the norm, China will be well within her rights to request/require comments seen as harmful to China to be suppressed.
Of course, your point that all governments are just aching to apply similar strictures is quite correct. Freedom has no friends in Whitehall or in Congress or any government.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,457
Originally Posted by etudiant
I think you missed my point, that the decision to censor 'hate speech', however that may be defined, puts all speech within range of the government censor.
Once that is the norm, China will be well within her rights to request/require comments seen as harmful to China to be suppressed.
Of course, your point that all governments are just aching to apply similar strictures is quite correct. Freedom has no friends in Whitehall or in Congress or any government.
Once that is the norm, China will be well within her rights to request/require comments seen as harmful to China to be suppressed.
Of course, your point that all governments are just aching to apply similar strictures is quite correct. Freedom has no friends in Whitehall or in Congress or any government.
I'm currently working in Whitehall, and I'm afraid, or rather happy, that you couldn't be more wrong!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,996
China could go batty over this one.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55541501
Australian advert of man eating bat sandwich investigated
An advert that shows a man eating a bat sandwich is being investigated by Australia's advertising watchdog.
The ad from outdoor equipment firm Boating Camping Fishing store (BCF) has been viewed more than 250,000 times on YouTube. In it, a man jokes that the pandemic was caused by someone eating a bat....
Relations between Australia and China deteriorated last year to their lowest point in decades, experts say. The advert could see tensions becoming further strained.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55541501
Australian advert of man eating bat sandwich investigated
An advert that shows a man eating a bat sandwich is being investigated by Australia's advertising watchdog.
The ad from outdoor equipment firm Boating Camping Fishing store (BCF) has been viewed more than 250,000 times on YouTube. In it, a man jokes that the pandemic was caused by someone eating a bat....
Relations between Australia and China deteriorated last year to their lowest point in decades, experts say. The advert could see tensions becoming further strained.....
Last edited by ORAC; 5th Jan 2021 at 18:47.
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
etudiant,
I'm currently working in Whitehall, and I'm afraid, or rather happy, that you couldn't be more wrong!
I'm currently working in Whitehall, and I'm afraid, or rather happy, that you couldn't be more wrong!
But do the friends of freedom wield the leavers of power or are they the people who do the work ?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by racedo
I love your optimism, in reality they can just ignore, unless RN is part of a USN deployment then it really has zero impact.
The "we have a big aircraft carrier" has zero impact when people you are challenging make you aware that in the event of any conflict it will be "we had a big aircraft carrier",
The Prince of Wales and The Repulse on 7th of December 1941 supposedly were a big show of RN power in Asia, couple of days later both were on the bottom of the sea.
The "we have a big aircraft carrier" has zero impact when people you are challenging make you aware that in the event of any conflict it will be "we had a big aircraft carrier",
The Prince of Wales and The Repulse on 7th of December 1941 supposedly were a big show of RN power in Asia, couple of days later both were on the bottom of the sea.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/05/europ...mil/index.html
Seems the Chinese are more interested in the RN CBG than you believe.
Sorry MODs, know you don’t like links, however it wouldn’t have been believed if I hadn’t added it. I’ll say 12 Hail Marys.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Here 'n' there!
Posts: 508
West Coast, re China being worried about the RN CBG, there is probably a difference between "political annoyance" and "military fear". I suspect if you sailed a lone RN Minesweeper into the area there would be a protest! Over the last few decades, Beijing has quietly got on with weaving itself into many areas around the world such as Africa - completely ignored. Maybe they hoped to "get away with it" in a more open example of expansionism in the SCS.
I suspect they are more than a little annoyed that plan backfired and the spotlight has been turned on them rather than having much "military fear" - particularly of a small CBG as an entity. However, such a deployment demonstrates political resolve - and that's what China is annoyed about - it all adds to the US, Australia etc, in unison, shining a spotlight on China. I suspect they realize that, if the West took on China militarily, we'd be effectively looking at WW3.
"Cold War 2" anyone?
I suspect they are more than a little annoyed that plan backfired and the spotlight has been turned on them rather than having much "military fear" - particularly of a small CBG as an entity. However, such a deployment demonstrates political resolve - and that's what China is annoyed about - it all adds to the US, Australia etc, in unison, shining a spotlight on China. I suspect they realize that, if the West took on China militarily, we'd be effectively looking at WW3.
"Cold War 2" anyone?
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,457
Originally Posted by etudiant
The Bible says that 'by their fruits you shall judge them'. By that standard there are very few friends of freedom in Whitehall afaik.
I'd be delighted to be corrected with specific examples.
I'd be delighted to be corrected with specific examples.
Go find your own specific examples.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: No longer welcome status
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by West Coast
Seems the Chinese are more interested in the RN CBG than you believe.
Sorry MODs, know you don’t like links, however it wouldn’t have been believed if I hadn’t added it. I’ll say 12 Hail Marys.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by racedo
Let's see from home port deployment to SCS.......................... from original notice to arrival minimum 35 days, yup lets be worried.
Employed correctly, the CBG is a potent tool.
