OCU and Flying Training
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Over the hill (and far away)
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beags and Easy man
That about sums up what my post was saying - the Bucc mafiosi on the TWCU at Honington (particularly the navs) were not in the least orientated to teaching.
Interesting to note that on my fist GR1 sqn, the former Jag pilots seemed to accept the two seat principle rather more readily than others - although they were occasionally discombobulated when they received a reply to their single seat monologues.
Postscript to that first sortie famil - the same pilot (ex Lightning) was giving a mass brief for live 1000lb bombing at Garvie Island. He asked (what he assumed would be a rhetorical question) if anyone had dropped a live 1000lb before; dramatic pause - well, says I, I did drop 21 of them on Quail Island AWR (Northern Territories - Ex Sunflower late 1974)...collapse of stout party (but aware that 6 now open season for at least one WIWOL).
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger
Mister B
That about sums up what my post was saying - the Bucc mafiosi on the TWCU at Honington (particularly the navs) were not in the least orientated to teaching.
Interesting to note that on my fist GR1 sqn, the former Jag pilots seemed to accept the two seat principle rather more readily than others - although they were occasionally discombobulated when they received a reply to their single seat monologues.
Postscript to that first sortie famil - the same pilot (ex Lightning) was giving a mass brief for live 1000lb bombing at Garvie Island. He asked (what he assumed would be a rhetorical question) if anyone had dropped a live 1000lb before; dramatic pause - well, says I, I did drop 21 of them on Quail Island AWR (Northern Territories - Ex Sunflower late 1974)...collapse of stout party (but aware that 6 now open season for at least one WIWOL).
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger
Mister B
Last edited by HTB; 21st Aug 2012 at 22:35.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are MEXOs still 'recommended' for those pointy types who finally see the light, realising that flying with a cup of tea & three course meal is rather civilized?
A fascinating thread, but out of interest, what made OCUs of the day particulalry good or bad? The Bucc OCU seems to have a very particular place reserved for it in that sense. Was it the aircraft being difficult to fly, the mission profiles or just the personalities involved?
And with respect to the Bucc OCU, how did the Dark Blue cope? I assume they had their own OCU, was that thought of in the same low regard as appears to be the case for the Light Blue OCU?
And with respect to the Bucc OCU, how did the Dark Blue cope? I assume they had their own OCU, was that thought of in the same low regard as appears to be the case for the Light Blue OCU?
Last edited by Melchett01; 22nd Aug 2012 at 07:34.
PN,
Sub-committee is what I wrote first, then I couldn't think of any main committee, so half changed my mind and added the question mark.
Bomber,
Fair decisions? Hard working? Were we on the same island? It was almost 37 years ago - October '75. Those years must have mellowed you, so much that you can now use the phrase "being nice to FRIs."
On the subject of recce competitions, I particularly remember one involving a certain OCU QFI who really fancied himself as a recce pilot. Having been handed the multiple target maps shortly before takeoff, he did not spot the spoof 50 thou (or was it 1 inch then?) in the middle. Reaching the IP, he flew the first half of the run meticulously (he later reported), but on reaching the fold, turned over, only to find a mirror image map running back to the IP. He seemed rather unamused when he landed. What a shame.
Sub-committee is what I wrote first, then I couldn't think of any main committee, so half changed my mind and added the question mark.
Bomber,
Are you now submitting a public appeal against fair decisions made under difficult conditions by hard-working QWIs some 35 years ago??
Anyway, being nice to FRIs reaped huge rewards during subsequent recce competitions!!
Anyway, being nice to FRIs reaped huge rewards during subsequent recce competitions!!
On the subject of recce competitions, I particularly remember one involving a certain OCU QFI who really fancied himself as a recce pilot. Having been handed the multiple target maps shortly before takeoff, he did not spot the spoof 50 thou (or was it 1 inch then?) in the middle. Reaching the IP, he flew the first half of the run meticulously (he later reported), but on reaching the fold, turned over, only to find a mirror image map running back to the IP. He seemed rather unamused when he landed. What a shame.
How hard were the recce targets back then?
At TWU in 1987, I was given a "comms facility" in a wooded valley with a run only possible across the valley. Turned out to be an RAC phonebox.
At TWU in 1987, I was given a "comms facility" in a wooded valley with a run only possible across the valley. Turned out to be an RAC phonebox.
Ah, recce targets! Time to dust off the old photo collection to remind myself of the times the results got me into trouble.
There was one in Scotland that I spotted a bit late, on the wrong side for the PFO (port facing oblique) camera. I brought back a good picture, but then someone spotted that the blanked area and cutout that appeared on PFO shots was at the bottom of the print rather than the top. OK, so I overbanked a little...
Then again I suffered disqualification from a small recce comp in Belize due to the size of the image of the altar on top of the temple in the jungle at Altun Ha. It was a good picture, but didn't show much of the temple.
I also suffered a Boss's talking to in week 1 of my second tour for doing someone a favour. Arriving as a fg off FRI, I was asked by one of the sgt PIs to get a photo of the tower at the Warsteiner brewery for presentation during a forthcoming visit. I produced the requisite image, but unfortunately the PI was handed the print while he was looking at the films from another sortie with the pilot, my Boss. On hearing that the new fg off had taken the picture, he invited me to his office for a short discussion of brewery locations, LFA boundaries and the focal length of various cameras. I lost that one, but did get a share of the free Wobbly.
There was one in Scotland that I spotted a bit late, on the wrong side for the PFO (port facing oblique) camera. I brought back a good picture, but then someone spotted that the blanked area and cutout that appeared on PFO shots was at the bottom of the print rather than the top. OK, so I overbanked a little...
Then again I suffered disqualification from a small recce comp in Belize due to the size of the image of the altar on top of the temple in the jungle at Altun Ha. It was a good picture, but didn't show much of the temple.
I also suffered a Boss's talking to in week 1 of my second tour for doing someone a favour. Arriving as a fg off FRI, I was asked by one of the sgt PIs to get a photo of the tower at the Warsteiner brewery for presentation during a forthcoming visit. I produced the requisite image, but unfortunately the PI was handed the print while he was looking at the films from another sortie with the pilot, my Boss. On hearing that the new fg off had taken the picture, he invited me to his office for a short discussion of brewery locations, LFA boundaries and the focal length of various cameras. I lost that one, but did get a share of the free Wobbly.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned SARTU yet.
Never a world I was part of, but I've read quite a few anecdotal comments on pprune over the years about a time when there was an instructor mafia (mainly rearcrew it must be said) that had already decided that some students weren't going to pass before they even arrived, irrespective of their actual ability.
CG - Everyone knows that it's a Financial Retention Incentive, wake up at the back......
Never a world I was part of, but I've read quite a few anecdotal comments on pprune over the years about a time when there was an instructor mafia (mainly rearcrew it must be said) that had already decided that some students weren't going to pass before they even arrived, irrespective of their actual ability.
CG - Everyone knows that it's a Financial Retention Incentive, wake up at the back......
Last edited by Biggus; 22nd Aug 2012 at 11:05.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 28°52'02"N
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HTP, I was on that Sunflower. I remember the tropical storm that was a precursor to Typhoon Tracey that destroyed Darwin (and I also remember the big Aussie nurses in the Officers Mess)
Ta Biggus- I do live a sheltered life!
Sooooo... mentioned in this context becauuuuuse? Even more reason to want to chop a loaded fecker? Did buddies of QWIs get an easy ride?
CG
Sooooo... mentioned in this context becauuuuuse? Even more reason to want to chop a loaded fecker? Did buddies of QWIs get an easy ride?
CG
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's a couple of quotes that have stayed with me, one from the F3 OCU, one from (someone else's) CR work-up:
Instructor to student (after a trip that even your own mother would struggle to class as a DCO), using that most under-stated of euphimisms. 'I think you'd benefit from seeing that one again, laddie'.
USAF exchange officer trying to console a JP who'd just failed a 2v2 Radar - DACT trip, a notorious stumbling block for front-seaters. 'This ain't rocket science. But it ain't far off'
Instructor to student (after a trip that even your own mother would struggle to class as a DCO), using that most under-stated of euphimisms. 'I think you'd benefit from seeing that one again, laddie'.
USAF exchange officer trying to console a JP who'd just failed a 2v2 Radar - DACT trip, a notorious stumbling block for front-seaters. 'This ain't rocket science. But it ain't far off'
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NP, on reflection you might be right, OTOH there was a similar committee for navs, one for FJ and one for ME, if there were similar committees for FJ, ME and RW that could make 5 sub committees.
I recall possibly the last one I attended when the quesion was asked: "What is the long-term policy for the navigator branch?".
This was 1990 and there was a deafening silence. Then the chairman asked of the person who had posed the question, "I thought you would have known that as you are from PMC" (as was).
I recall possibly the last one I attended when the quesion was asked: "What is the long-term policy for the navigator branch?".
This was 1990 and there was a deafening silence. Then the chairman asked of the person who had posed the question, "I thought you would have known that as you are from PMC" (as was).
I know it seems almost traditional to 'bash' 237 OCU on this forum, but I can only say that when I went through, in the early/mid 70s, it was great fun.
Sure, there were a few 'strong' personalities and, if you were a bit of a wilting flower, the debriefs were pretty direct (T.O. in particular would draw a series of ZZZZs against your name on the chalkboard if you were a bit slow picking up the bounce on a STRIPRO sortie); but overall, when I reached the squadron, I felt pretty well prepared for the job and some of the ingrained BC-induced habits probably made me a safer pilot.
Sure, there were a few 'strong' personalities and, if you were a bit of a wilting flower, the debriefs were pretty direct (T.O. in particular would draw a series of ZZZZs against your name on the chalkboard if you were a bit slow picking up the bounce on a STRIPRO sortie); but overall, when I reached the squadron, I felt pretty well prepared for the job and some of the ingrained BC-induced habits probably made me a safer pilot.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 80
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
For what my penny's worth, I was a staff pilot at Chiv 'n Valley for six years, and a stude on four OCU's. On all there were good, mediocre and bad experiences. I think that to use a broad IT assessment brush for those and other training units is perhaps misleading, and that a finer one would be more appropriate, but not here: ie character assassination. I'd like to think that this applied elsewhere. After all, the system then, and now, delivered an excellent across the board Air Force; with, of course, fine-tuning once on the squadron - but, at times, that process was likewise not perfect.
There I go, fence-sitting again
edited to add - but then I really don't care
There I go, fence-sitting again
edited to add - but then I really don't care
Last edited by jindabyne; 22nd Aug 2012 at 19:23.
....some of the ingrained BC-induced habits probably made me a safer pilot.
His expression for Air Traffic Control stayed with me for the rest of my time in the RAF - the 'Flying Prevention Branch'.
Last seen in South Wales, I hope he's enjoying a well-deserved retirement.
There I go, fence-sitting again..
Last edited by BEagle; 22nd Aug 2012 at 18:50.
Almost drifting back to thread......................
I completed the Harrier OCU in 1972 as one of the first first-tourists onto type.
The staff were superb! They set high standards, and they were quite excellent in helping you to achieve them. They gave the necessary guidance, instructed properly, and were fun to be with. But if you stepped over the line, or went wrong, then you knew it!!
Everyone worked hard and played hard. It was a great environment in which to grow up, and set the scene for transfer to an operational squadron.
I then completed a short Jag OCU conversion in 1977, and I thought that the staff there were - mostly - also excellent, giving good instruction and guidance, helping when necessary, beating when appropriate, and chopping when hope was well gone!
If other OCUs were different, then please don't paint all with the same brush.
As an aside, if the "BC" referred to previously is the same "BC" who drove a Deux Chevaux rather than a fashionable and trendy BMW, and with whom I shared an office at CTTO in 1981/2, then I am not surprised that he offered good guidance which has stood the test of time!!
I completed the Harrier OCU in 1972 as one of the first first-tourists onto type.
The staff were superb! They set high standards, and they were quite excellent in helping you to achieve them. They gave the necessary guidance, instructed properly, and were fun to be with. But if you stepped over the line, or went wrong, then you knew it!!
Everyone worked hard and played hard. It was a great environment in which to grow up, and set the scene for transfer to an operational squadron.
I then completed a short Jag OCU conversion in 1977, and I thought that the staff there were - mostly - also excellent, giving good instruction and guidance, helping when necessary, beating when appropriate, and chopping when hope was well gone!
If other OCUs were different, then please don't paint all with the same brush.
As an aside, if the "BC" referred to previously is the same "BC" who drove a Deux Chevaux rather than a fashionable and trendy BMW, and with whom I shared an office at CTTO in 1981/2, then I am not surprised that he offered good guidance which has stood the test of time!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think PN's referring to the single-seater by the A17 at Fleet Hargate, just east of Holbeach. In very good nick for a private 'gate guardian'.
Last edited by Easy Street; 22nd Aug 2012 at 19:51.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ES, not at all. I am refering to a crappy, strange green and grey one, no canopy and no nose cone, balanced on a load of pallets.
Someone should put it out of its misery.
Someone should put it out of its misery.