Are you about to be shafted by the UK to EASA ATPL transition?
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Are you about to be shafted by the UK to EASA ATPL transition?
Hi,
If you hold a UK ATPL & have less than 500 hours on a multi-pilot aircraft, this affects YOU..... if not, feel free to stop reading now.
As an ex-military fast jet bloke who's held a UK ATPL for over a decade (& has been using it professionally for the last 5 years), I'm about to lose it in the impending transition to EASA Part FCL licences. This is because I don't have any multi-pilot time & EASA regulations require an ATPL holder to have 500 hours on a multi-pilot aircraft. I know of another two of us in the same position but suspect there are very few others & we are probably all current or ex-military fast jet pilots who gained our UK ATPLs just before the JAR transition a decade ago.
We are currently putting together a case to take to the CAA & EASA so if you think you may be disadvantaged by the same legislation, please feel free to PM me - it may be to your advantage.
ExAdvert
If you hold a UK ATPL & have less than 500 hours on a multi-pilot aircraft, this affects YOU..... if not, feel free to stop reading now.
As an ex-military fast jet bloke who's held a UK ATPL for over a decade (& has been using it professionally for the last 5 years), I'm about to lose it in the impending transition to EASA Part FCL licences. This is because I don't have any multi-pilot time & EASA regulations require an ATPL holder to have 500 hours on a multi-pilot aircraft. I know of another two of us in the same position but suspect there are very few others & we are probably all current or ex-military fast jet pilots who gained our UK ATPLs just before the JAR transition a decade ago.
We are currently putting together a case to take to the CAA & EASA so if you think you may be disadvantaged by the same legislation, please feel free to PM me - it may be to your advantage.
ExAdvert
I don't understand why you feel hard done by here. Why do you think you should be entitled to an EASA ATPL if don't have the required experience on heavy multi-engine multi-crew aircraft?
Last edited by Trim Stab; 18th Aug 2012 at 20:53.
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VigilantPilot - you're quite correct: JAR requirements have always been 500 hours multi-pilot for an ATPL however when JAR came along, it wasn't mandatory to convert a national licence to a JAR licence. At the time, the CAA even said they would continue to issue UK ATPLs "indefinitely". The big difference now is the transition to EASA is mandatory under EU Law & UK ATPLs will effectively become worthless for commercial purposes from 8 Apr 2014 onwards.
You're also correct in guessing I'll end up with an EASA (Part FCL) CPL/ IR (aka a "Frozen ATPL"). However, this change in licences will result in a loss of privileges which will have an impact on what I can & can't do with my current employer (without getting into details). More significantly, it will also affect what jobs I will be eligible for in the future - how many times do we see a job advert which stipulates "ATPL required"?
The fact that a change in EU Law which moves the goalposts for existing national licence holders & professionally disadvantages them sounds like a reasonable basis for a case to me.....
... and don't even get me started on why the CRM & adherence to SOPs required in the operation of a heavy, multi-engine, multi-crew fast jet over several thousand hours doesn't equate to the same while operating a multi-pilot aircraft in the eyes of the CAA or EASA!
Like I said in the original post, PM me if you're in the same situation as the group of us or feel free to stop reading.
ExAdvert
You're also correct in guessing I'll end up with an EASA (Part FCL) CPL/ IR (aka a "Frozen ATPL"). However, this change in licences will result in a loss of privileges which will have an impact on what I can & can't do with my current employer (without getting into details). More significantly, it will also affect what jobs I will be eligible for in the future - how many times do we see a job advert which stipulates "ATPL required"?
The fact that a change in EU Law which moves the goalposts for existing national licence holders & professionally disadvantages them sounds like a reasonable basis for a case to me.....
... and don't even get me started on why the CRM & adherence to SOPs required in the operation of a heavy, multi-engine, multi-crew fast jet over several thousand hours doesn't equate to the same while operating a multi-pilot aircraft in the eyes of the CAA or EASA!
Like I said in the original post, PM me if you're in the same situation as the group of us or feel free to stop reading.
ExAdvert
Last edited by ExAdvert; 18th Aug 2012 at 22:48. Reason: spolling & grommer
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Some of us have had quite a bit of involvement in these changes and my advice (take it or leave it, it's free!) is that unless you can prove a loss of licence or rating privilege (note, not lack of 'status') you will just waste vast amounts of your time and effort. Also note if it is an employer requirement for an ATPL not a CPL and they try to sack you based on your change from a UK ATPL to a EASA CPL then that is an employment law case between you and your employer.
Last edited by blagger; 19th Aug 2012 at 06:37.
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blagger - thanks very much for the advice, it's always appreciated particularly when it's from someone who has had involvement in the subject (& particularly when it's free 
).
It's not a question of loss of "status" or bruised egos here - as far as we can see, there is a definite loss of priviliges. What you can & can't do as an ATPL holder vs a CPL holder is very clearly laid out & our careers are going to be affected.
Regarding employment law, my employer has been very supportive throughout all this - I've been very fortunate & I'm very grateful to them for that. Please bear in mind, they too stand to be disadvantaged by the EASA transition because the change in my licence will limit my usefuleness within their operations. Furthermore, if the only way of maintaining any sort of ATPL is by finding alternative work (which gains me the requisite 500 hours multi-pilot), I may be forced to leave them .... & they're not too keen on losing me (oddly enough!).
As far as we're aware, employers don't just arbitrarily choose which licence their flight crews need for a particular job - they're bound by complex legislation & insurance requirements. So our employers are not at fault here & they're not at liberty to simply change their licensing requirements to accomodate the new EASA rules. Perhaps someone with a more detailed knowledge of EU Ops might be able to comment?
I suspect we are all just victims of the unintended consequences of EASA changing the rules but when these changes have a direct impact on our careers, surely it's worth trying to get them reviewed?
For those of you who have already PM'd - thanks for your support & advice, Please keep it coming.
).It's not a question of loss of "status" or bruised egos here - as far as we can see, there is a definite loss of priviliges. What you can & can't do as an ATPL holder vs a CPL holder is very clearly laid out & our careers are going to be affected.
Regarding employment law, my employer has been very supportive throughout all this - I've been very fortunate & I'm very grateful to them for that. Please bear in mind, they too stand to be disadvantaged by the EASA transition because the change in my licence will limit my usefuleness within their operations. Furthermore, if the only way of maintaining any sort of ATPL is by finding alternative work (which gains me the requisite 500 hours multi-pilot), I may be forced to leave them .... & they're not too keen on losing me (oddly enough!).
As far as we're aware, employers don't just arbitrarily choose which licence their flight crews need for a particular job - they're bound by complex legislation & insurance requirements. So our employers are not at fault here & they're not at liberty to simply change their licensing requirements to accomodate the new EASA rules. Perhaps someone with a more detailed knowledge of EU Ops might be able to comment?
I suspect we are all just victims of the unintended consequences of EASA changing the rules but when these changes have a direct impact on our careers, surely it's worth trying to get them reviewed?
For those of you who have already PM'd - thanks for your support & advice, Please keep it coming.
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Have you tried getting some of your single pilot dual crew stuff signed off as multi crew?
If you have SOP's for it and there is a decent amount of kit on the RHS you can get permission off the CAA to log it as multi crew.
You need to speak to your flight ops inspector.
If they are willing you might get away with it.
If you have SOP's for it and there is a decent amount of kit on the RHS you can get permission off the CAA to log it as multi crew.
You need to speak to your flight ops inspector.
If they are willing you might get away with it.
