Argentinian Falklands war graves vandalised
I can´t imagine an Argentine soldier attacking the grave of a fallen comrade, less by an order of the current government.
Hope the culprits will be caught soon.
Hope the culprits will be caught soon.
In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to the ANZACs killed at Gallipoli:
Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side now here in this country of ours... you, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land. They have become our sons as well.
This inscription appears on the Kemal Atatürk Memorial, ANZAC Parade, Canberra.
This brings tears to my eyes every time I read it.
It is something that we should all live by.
Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side now here in this country of ours... you, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land. They have become our sons as well.
This inscription appears on the Kemal Atatürk Memorial, ANZAC Parade, Canberra.
This brings tears to my eyes every time I read it.
It is something that we should all live by.
Last edited by ericferret; 2nd Aug 2012 at 17:26.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does it really matter? the fact that the man did what he did as an act of reconciliation.
Shocked by this desecration, because it is just that. I sincerely hope that the miscreants are traced.
Shocked by this desecration, because it is just that. I sincerely hope that the miscreants are traced.
Last edited by glad rag; 2nd Aug 2012 at 17:39.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Glesga, Scotland
Age: 51
Posts: 230
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cant understand the people who do this ,yes we was at war with them and they paid the ultimate price isnt that enough .
i can only hope the police catch who ever done this quickly .
i can only hope the police catch who ever done this quickly .
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Far North of Watford
Age: 82
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely does it matter who died there and were remembered with respect by their brave and chivalrous enemy. Gallipoli is believed by a large chunk of the public to have been a solely ANZAC battle and disaster. The ANZAC troops played a major part, but the many others should not be forgotten.
The desecration of the Argentine memorial is shaming and I apologise to any Argentines who might read this. The graves of those young Argentine soldiers lie in British soil where they died and it is our duty to respect, care for and protect them.
The desecration of the Argentine memorial is shaming and I apologise to any Argentines who might read this. The graves of those young Argentine soldiers lie in British soil where they died and it is our duty to respect, care for and protect them.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Civ/HAL/SHY/FYY/PWK/AAS/WAD/AVI/GPT/BZN/BSN/WAD/BAS/FLK/WIT/MND/WAD/WIT/WAD/Civ
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It could even have been nobody.
The week I left MPA we had 65kt winds at MPA, which out there could have easily been higher and whipped up some of the gravel.
The glass was fine when I visited on 8th Jul 2012 (although the Bible under it was a tad soggy)
The week I left MPA we had 65kt winds at MPA, which out there could have easily been higher and whipped up some of the gravel.
The glass was fine when I visited on 8th Jul 2012 (although the Bible under it was a tad soggy)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,830 Likes
on
1,208 Posts
Isn't that always the way HH,
I am pleased for the families that they will now have a known grave to grieve at, it's those things that makes a difference and in a way helps heal old wounds, the graveyard from the images I have seen online does them proud and is a credit to the work of those that work tirelessly to maintain them.
I am pleased for the families that they will now have a known grave to grieve at, it's those things that makes a difference and in a way helps heal old wounds, the graveyard from the images I have seen online does them proud and is a credit to the work of those that work tirelessly to maintain them.
Having visited that cemetery several times in the last 18 years, I always found it a sobering and respectful place honouring some of the poor conscripts who were pushed into a war they weren't interested in or trained for.
Like others, I can't imagine it was Brit Mil - a great shame and disgraceful behaviour whoever it was.
Like others, I can't imagine it was Brit Mil - a great shame and disgraceful behaviour whoever it was.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
It seems people aren’t reading the contents of my latest link - to show the difference between then and now. So I have decided to post the full text.
Falklands: Argentinian soldiers' relatives to put names on graves
The relatives of 89 previously unidentified Argentinian soldiers killed during the 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands will travel there this month to put names on their graves. Their identification has been made possible due to painstaking DNA testing and the humanitarian initiative of a British captain who in 1982 gathered more than 120 dead soldiers, with their effects, and placed them in graves each marked with the words “Argentine soldier known only to God”.
The testing of the exhumed bodies by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) was agreed by the British and Argentinian governments in 2016 after a campaign led by both British and Argentinian veterans. Key figures behind the campaign, including forensic experts from the ICRC, Roger Waters from the band Pink Floyd, and relatives of the unidentified soldiers, met on Friday at the Argentinian embassy in London to celebrate their joint act of reconciliation. Osvaldo Ardiles, the former Tottenham Hotspur footballer whose cousin was a pilot killed in the war, was also present.
A Foreign Office diplomat spoke at the ceremony, calling for further reconciliation. Juan Carlos Pallarols, an Argentinian goldsmith, presented to the chief campaigners metal “peace roses” carved from bullets, pistols and parts of planes from the Falklands.
The relatives will travel to the islands on 26 March in two chartered planes to put names on 88 graves in Darwin cemetery.
The process of identification, including securing the agreement of the Falkland Islands’ people, has been sensitive at a diplomatic, humanitarian and personal level. A total of 649 Argentinians and 255 British soldiers died during the conflict. Nigel Baker, head of the South America department at the Foreign Office, said: “We were clear this was a humanitarian issue in which the wishes of the family were paramount.” He paid tribute to the veterans’ groups who “continue to teach us the real meaning of the words dignity and reconciliation”.
The identification process was only possible thanks to Geoffrey Cardozo, a British army captain who speaks Spanish. Dispatched to the Falklands in 1982, initially to deal with post-combat discipline, he spent six weeks helping build a cemetery for the largely conscripted soldiers that British forces found scattered – sometimes half-buried – across the islands. He put white sheets and plastic bags over each body and buried each soldier with a casket containing any effects he could find on them such as ID numbers or letters for home. He compiled a logbook of where he had found the bodies, any identifying marks and where they were buried. Cardozo said: “I am an army officer, I am a soldier but before everything else I am a human being. Nine hundred little hearts stopped beating in 1982, although they still beat hard in the breasts of their loved ones.”
In 2008 he gave the logbook to three Argentinian veterans. One of the three was Julio Aro, who had visited the cemetery in 2008 and formed the No Me Olvides (do not forget me) foundation. Aro said he had been driven to identify the dead because his mother had told him: “If you had ever gone missing, I would have searched for you until the end of my life.” He said he knew that if he had died he would not have been identifiable since his name was not engraved, just scrawled on a piece of paper with sticky tape.
Waters said he joined the campaign when touring in Argentina in December 2011. At that time he received an email from an Argentinian war correspondent, Gaby Cociffi, which led him to lobby the Argentinian president. Waters said: “These families has suffered a double bereavement of losing a child to war and having no specific place to shed a tear, or lay a flower.” At the embassy he read out part of the appeal he had sent to Falklands legislators urging them “to imagine the anguish of the families, rise above the melee, take the higher moral ground and that it would be a beautiful thing if they were able to do that”. Eventually they did take that higher ground, he said.
As a result of the campaign, in December 2016, the two governments finally reached agreement on a DNA process in which the ICRC was given the task of identifying the former soldiers. Laurent Corbaz, head of the ICRC humanitarian project plan, liaised with relatives of the dead soldiers and obtained DNA samples from members of the 107 families to attempt to match against the DNA found in the graves. No one could predict the state of the bodies. Corbaz said: “For seven weeks in July last year, the Falklands winter, we worked at the cemetery exhuming 122 corpses, taking DNA samples at a morgue and then placing the remans back in new coffins. It was unlike anything we had done before. We had to deploy sensitive equipment and a hi-tech mortuary.” The DNA samples were sent to a morgue in Argentina and were cross-checked in the UK and in Spain.
Morris Tidball-Binz, head of the Argentinian forensics team, said: “Sometimes we had to resample the relatives’ DNA for missing soldiers if the family relationship was not close. We set a standard of 99.8% certainty. It was very exacting: a few years back the science would not have allowed us.”
Asked how he felt on meeting fellow campaigners such as Cardoso for the first time, Waters said: “It is a gift from time and space to be allowed to show empathy and love for a fellow human being.”
Or as the Argentinian ambassador put it: “Sometimes great tragedies bring great gestures and exemplary actions.”
Falklands: Argentinian soldiers' relatives to put names on graves
The relatives of 89 previously unidentified Argentinian soldiers killed during the 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands will travel there this month to put names on their graves. Their identification has been made possible due to painstaking DNA testing and the humanitarian initiative of a British captain who in 1982 gathered more than 120 dead soldiers, with their effects, and placed them in graves each marked with the words “Argentine soldier known only to God”.
The testing of the exhumed bodies by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) was agreed by the British and Argentinian governments in 2016 after a campaign led by both British and Argentinian veterans. Key figures behind the campaign, including forensic experts from the ICRC, Roger Waters from the band Pink Floyd, and relatives of the unidentified soldiers, met on Friday at the Argentinian embassy in London to celebrate their joint act of reconciliation. Osvaldo Ardiles, the former Tottenham Hotspur footballer whose cousin was a pilot killed in the war, was also present.
A Foreign Office diplomat spoke at the ceremony, calling for further reconciliation. Juan Carlos Pallarols, an Argentinian goldsmith, presented to the chief campaigners metal “peace roses” carved from bullets, pistols and parts of planes from the Falklands.
The relatives will travel to the islands on 26 March in two chartered planes to put names on 88 graves in Darwin cemetery.
The process of identification, including securing the agreement of the Falkland Islands’ people, has been sensitive at a diplomatic, humanitarian and personal level. A total of 649 Argentinians and 255 British soldiers died during the conflict. Nigel Baker, head of the South America department at the Foreign Office, said: “We were clear this was a humanitarian issue in which the wishes of the family were paramount.” He paid tribute to the veterans’ groups who “continue to teach us the real meaning of the words dignity and reconciliation”.
The identification process was only possible thanks to Geoffrey Cardozo, a British army captain who speaks Spanish. Dispatched to the Falklands in 1982, initially to deal with post-combat discipline, he spent six weeks helping build a cemetery for the largely conscripted soldiers that British forces found scattered – sometimes half-buried – across the islands. He put white sheets and plastic bags over each body and buried each soldier with a casket containing any effects he could find on them such as ID numbers or letters for home. He compiled a logbook of where he had found the bodies, any identifying marks and where they were buried. Cardozo said: “I am an army officer, I am a soldier but before everything else I am a human being. Nine hundred little hearts stopped beating in 1982, although they still beat hard in the breasts of their loved ones.”
In 2008 he gave the logbook to three Argentinian veterans. One of the three was Julio Aro, who had visited the cemetery in 2008 and formed the No Me Olvides (do not forget me) foundation. Aro said he had been driven to identify the dead because his mother had told him: “If you had ever gone missing, I would have searched for you until the end of my life.” He said he knew that if he had died he would not have been identifiable since his name was not engraved, just scrawled on a piece of paper with sticky tape.
Waters said he joined the campaign when touring in Argentina in December 2011. At that time he received an email from an Argentinian war correspondent, Gaby Cociffi, which led him to lobby the Argentinian president. Waters said: “These families has suffered a double bereavement of losing a child to war and having no specific place to shed a tear, or lay a flower.” At the embassy he read out part of the appeal he had sent to Falklands legislators urging them “to imagine the anguish of the families, rise above the melee, take the higher moral ground and that it would be a beautiful thing if they were able to do that”. Eventually they did take that higher ground, he said.
As a result of the campaign, in December 2016, the two governments finally reached agreement on a DNA process in which the ICRC was given the task of identifying the former soldiers. Laurent Corbaz, head of the ICRC humanitarian project plan, liaised with relatives of the dead soldiers and obtained DNA samples from members of the 107 families to attempt to match against the DNA found in the graves. No one could predict the state of the bodies. Corbaz said: “For seven weeks in July last year, the Falklands winter, we worked at the cemetery exhuming 122 corpses, taking DNA samples at a morgue and then placing the remans back in new coffins. It was unlike anything we had done before. We had to deploy sensitive equipment and a hi-tech mortuary.” The DNA samples were sent to a morgue in Argentina and were cross-checked in the UK and in Spain.
Morris Tidball-Binz, head of the Argentinian forensics team, said: “Sometimes we had to resample the relatives’ DNA for missing soldiers if the family relationship was not close. We set a standard of 99.8% certainty. It was very exacting: a few years back the science would not have allowed us.”
Asked how he felt on meeting fellow campaigners such as Cardoso for the first time, Waters said: “It is a gift from time and space to be allowed to show empathy and love for a fellow human being.”
Or as the Argentinian ambassador put it: “Sometimes great tragedies bring great gestures and exemplary actions.”
Ossie Ardiles came out to the FI when I was last there to make a film about his cousin and they visited the cemetery.
Unfortunately, he and his team discovered how treacherous the roads are there and speared in, rolling into the ditch.
As RAF SAR we picked them up and took them to the hospital at Stanley where they were treated for various injuries (head for Ossie) and then medevaced back home.
Unfortunately, he and his team discovered how treacherous the roads are there and speared in, rolling into the ditch.
As RAF SAR we picked them up and took them to the hospital at Stanley where they were treated for various injuries (head for Ossie) and then medevaced back home.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh the ditches!! I was told that the when they were building the Mt Pleasant - Stanley post-war they contractor asked for rainfall figures so they could calculate run-off and so size the ditches correctly... they were given ANNUAL figures but had it in their minds that the FI was a very wet place (which it actually isn't) and thought they were MONTHLY figures
hence ditches that would stop a Russian Armoured Division...........
hence ditches that would stop a Russian Armoured Division...........
HH - correct and they have trapped a lot of unwary 4x4 drivers.
The problem is exacerbated by the surface and the relatively scarce traffic - people tend to drive in the middle which pushes the loose stuff towards the edge (think marbles on an F1 track) so when deviating from the middle of the road for oncoming traffic, the surface tends to 'snatch' at the big 4x4 tyres which would be OK if there wasn't a 4 foot drop!!!
The problem is exacerbated by the surface and the relatively scarce traffic - people tend to drive in the middle which pushes the loose stuff towards the edge (think marbles on an F1 track) so when deviating from the middle of the road for oncoming traffic, the surface tends to 'snatch' at the big 4x4 tyres which would be OK if there wasn't a 4 foot drop!!!
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Ossie Ardiles came out to the FI when I was last there to make a film about his cousin and they visited the cemetery.
Unfortunately, he and his team discovered how treacherous the roads are there and speared in, rolling into the ditch.
As RAF SAR we picked them up and took them to the hospital at Stanley where they were treated for various injuries (head for Ossie) and then medevaced back home.
Unfortunately, he and his team discovered how treacherous the roads are there and speared in, rolling into the ditch.
As RAF SAR we picked them up and took them to the hospital at Stanley where they were treated for various injuries (head for Ossie) and then medevaced back home.
And a very good film it was to.
The Stanley to Mt Pleasant road was originally going to be all blacktop, but money became scarce hence the blacktop on the hilly bits and the rest scalpings. When it opened it had no speed limit. One of the first soldiers to drive it in a SWB Land Rover was a signaller from 216 Sig Sqn who came of blacktop onto shale at speed, rolled and sadly died. There was then a lot of toing and froing on who had the authority to set a speed limit, FIG or the Military. Finally resolved and 40mph limit set several days, maybe weeks later (Long time ago). For 48 hours in 86 the road was on my personal slop chit.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Civ/HAL/SHY/FYY/PWK/AAS/WAD/AVI/GPT/BZN/BSN/WAD/BAS/FLK/WIT/MND/WAD/WIT/WAD/Civ
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh the ditches!! I was told that the when they were building the Mt Pleasant - Stanley post-war they contractor asked for rainfall figures so they could calculate run-off and so size the ditches correctly... they were given ANNUAL figures but had it in their minds that the FI was a very wet place (which it actually isn't) and thought they were MONTHLY figures
hence ditches that would stop a Russian Armoured Division...........
hence ditches that would stop a Russian Armoured Division...........
I was told it was a metric/imperial error:
They thought in inches, but were told figures in millimetres!
Either Or, still a factor of 12 or possibly even 25 out!