Bomber Command Memorial
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Bomber Command Memorial
I came across this quote a few weeks back,made by a Bomber Command aircrew member in 1944.I think it sums up the bravery of not only aircrew but also all of our predecessors who lived,and sometimes died,during those dark years.
"If you live on the brink of death itself it is as if those who have gone have merely caught an earlier train to the same destination,and whatever that destination is,you will be sharing it soon,since you will almost certainly be catching the next one".
"If you live on the brink of death itself it is as if those who have gone have merely caught an earlier train to the same destination,and whatever that destination is,you will be sharing it soon,since you will almost certainly be catching the next one".
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Bomber Command Memorial
I watched the ceremony on TV and, not having seen the memorial during its construction, I was pleasantly surprised at its grandeur. Grandeur is what they deserve. Grandeur!
It is also sited in a very special place, in the heart of the capital, which although not alone, suffered so much from Nazi bombing, and on the edge of a beautiful and peaceful green London park (no pun intended).
My own RAF career, as an engineer was spent mostly in 11 group but my Dad, who I loved and admired was, in WW2, a Typhoon pilot. Not Bomber Command but his job was straffeing and rocketing trains and vehicles in Normandy (Opertion Winkle etc) - he was a mud mover.
We owe an enormous debt to the crews of Bomber Command and, in a good way, we owe a debt to Robin Gibb (God rest his soul).
In another strange way it is good that the B Cmd memorial is only a few paces from the RAF Club. There have been many adverse comments about the RAF Club in this forum, but I have experienced the priviledge of knowing and listening to veterans of Bomber Command for many years.
RGDS SOS
It is also sited in a very special place, in the heart of the capital, which although not alone, suffered so much from Nazi bombing, and on the edge of a beautiful and peaceful green London park (no pun intended).
My own RAF career, as an engineer was spent mostly in 11 group but my Dad, who I loved and admired was, in WW2, a Typhoon pilot. Not Bomber Command but his job was straffeing and rocketing trains and vehicles in Normandy (Opertion Winkle etc) - he was a mud mover.
We owe an enormous debt to the crews of Bomber Command and, in a good way, we owe a debt to Robin Gibb (God rest his soul).
In another strange way it is good that the B Cmd memorial is only a few paces from the RAF Club. There have been many adverse comments about the RAF Club in this forum, but I have experienced the priviledge of knowing and listening to veterans of Bomber Command for many years.
RGDS SOS
I think Rowan Moore, writing in the Guardian is just knocking off a few art critic words to earn his crust. Not really much in the way of PC politics.
"Obliviousness . . . . Its style is amnesiac classical" etc etc. Sounds like the script for a stand-up comedian doing a take-off of Brian Sewell
To be fair, this piece in The Gruadain is pretty even handed.
"Obliviousness . . . . Its style is amnesiac classical" etc etc. Sounds like the script for a stand-up comedian doing a take-off of Brian Sewell
To be fair, this piece in The Gruadain is pretty even handed.
Last edited by Basil; 29th Jun 2012 at 11:50.
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I am very glad the memorial has finally been put in place, but sad that my grandfather did not live to see it. Although he survived the war, having flown Lancasters predominantly with 44(Rhodesia) Sqn but also with the Pathfinders and earning a DFC, so many of his friends, colleagues and his brother did not.
A key member of his local RBL he spent his later years talking to school children about what Bomber Command did, trying to ensure that the memory of the sacrifice of all those men was not forgotten or written out of history. A religious man, he wrestled with what he had had to do but we have always been very proud of him.
I have been lucky enough to serve at 2 of his former bases, Cottesmore and Wyton despite being RN, and it always made me smile when we talked and found that at RAF bases some things never change!
We will remember them, with pride, for the courage they showed and the lives they gave.
A key member of his local RBL he spent his later years talking to school children about what Bomber Command did, trying to ensure that the memory of the sacrifice of all those men was not forgotten or written out of history. A religious man, he wrestled with what he had had to do but we have always been very proud of him.
I have been lucky enough to serve at 2 of his former bases, Cottesmore and Wyton despite being RN, and it always made me smile when we talked and found that at RAF bases some things never change!
We will remember them, with pride, for the courage they showed and the lives they gave.
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I had a friend, who flew Halifaxes. Having had an engine shot up and some of the crew injured, he struggled back to his home airfield but undershot the runway, all the crew survived although he was hospitalised. It was his 11th mission and he never flew operationally again.
I once asked him if he'd ever fancied a civilian flying career after the war.
''Good God no old chap,'' he replied, ''far too bloody dangerous!''
As an aside, I'd never heard of Rowan Moore until now. I will make it a point of instantly forgetting him and his pointless drivel.
I once asked him if he'd ever fancied a civilian flying career after the war.
''Good God no old chap,'' he replied, ''far too bloody dangerous!''
As an aside, I'd never heard of Rowan Moore until now. I will make it a point of instantly forgetting him and his pointless drivel.
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Allow me to recommend the best television programme I have yet seen on the bomber offensive. It is "Who Betrayed the Bomber Boys?" and is broadcast by the Yesterday channel. Essential viewing.
I was fortunate to be in Green Park yesterday. Not near the BC Memorial itself but in the Salute Area, with a big screen, next to Constitution Hill. Total attending within the security cordon was around 6000. A shame that the BBC didn't show a shot of the Salute Area. It would have been more indicative of the level of support for the Memorial than only showing the big wigs and a few selected veterans at the Memorial site.
I endorse all the other supportive comments above re yesterday.
A big special thanks must go to all the UAS guys and girls who did a splendid job as stewards, especially handing out bottles and cups of water to all those in the Salute Area. Given the overcast conditions earlier in the day many, including me and mrs 1066, were surprised how hot it was when the skies cleared, as you can see in the shots of the flypasts. We spoke to some of them and all were volunteers and thrilled to be taking part in such a special event. I believe most of the BC crews were VR, so how appropriate for VR members of the UASs to be in attendance.
I was there as a member of the BCA. I started my 'productive' flying as a Plt Off co-pilot on the Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme. The clue is in my 'handle'. My first station commander was a DFC with pathfinder wings. I served under 2 flt cdrs who had completed bomber tours as well as flying with other pilots and flight engineers with similar backgrounds. One of my uncles was an O navigator on Wellingtons with 99 and 462. Unusual for a Brit to be on an Aussie sqn. His pilot from 99 became a flt cdr on 462 and requested that he be allowed to join 462.
The old boy across the road was WOp/AG, Whitleys!! then Wellingtons with 115. Ditched twice, shot down over Holland then POW.
Enough said as to why I joined the BCA and wanted to be there yesterday.
Well done to the small BCA staff, Malcom White, Doug Radcliffe, Vivienne Hammer et al. None of them deserved the abuse that came their way after the Mail article re vets and vets families not being allocated tickets for the unveiling. The deadline to apply for tickets was put back twice as an attempt to accommodate late applications.
A day that has come too late but in the end a fitting tribute to the fallen of Bomber Command.
1066
I endorse all the other supportive comments above re yesterday.
A big special thanks must go to all the UAS guys and girls who did a splendid job as stewards, especially handing out bottles and cups of water to all those in the Salute Area. Given the overcast conditions earlier in the day many, including me and mrs 1066, were surprised how hot it was when the skies cleared, as you can see in the shots of the flypasts. We spoke to some of them and all were volunteers and thrilled to be taking part in such a special event. I believe most of the BC crews were VR, so how appropriate for VR members of the UASs to be in attendance.
I was there as a member of the BCA. I started my 'productive' flying as a Plt Off co-pilot on the Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme. The clue is in my 'handle'. My first station commander was a DFC with pathfinder wings. I served under 2 flt cdrs who had completed bomber tours as well as flying with other pilots and flight engineers with similar backgrounds. One of my uncles was an O navigator on Wellingtons with 99 and 462. Unusual for a Brit to be on an Aussie sqn. His pilot from 99 became a flt cdr on 462 and requested that he be allowed to join 462.
The old boy across the road was WOp/AG, Whitleys!! then Wellingtons with 115. Ditched twice, shot down over Holland then POW.
Enough said as to why I joined the BCA and wanted to be there yesterday.
Well done to the small BCA staff, Malcom White, Doug Radcliffe, Vivienne Hammer et al. None of them deserved the abuse that came their way after the Mail article re vets and vets families not being allocated tickets for the unveiling. The deadline to apply for tickets was put back twice as an attempt to accommodate late applications.
A day that has come too late but in the end a fitting tribute to the fallen of Bomber Command.
1066
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and more from the Gaurdrain
The artistic jingoism of the Bomber Command memorial
This architecturally crass pavilion is like the nervously loud voice of someone trying to shout down opposition
This architecturally crass pavilion is like the nervously loud voice of someone trying to shout down opposition
1066,
Agreed. The UAS, the Cranwell cadets and everyone looking after us was extremely smartly turned out, polite and attentive. There was even a Wg Cdr medic helping with water supplies and guidance.
Anyone know if "Who Betrayed the Bomber Boys?" is going to be broadcast again?
Agreed. The UAS, the Cranwell cadets and everyone looking after us was extremely smartly turned out, polite and attentive. There was even a Wg Cdr medic helping with water supplies and guidance.
Anyone know if "Who Betrayed the Bomber Boys?" is going to be broadcast again?
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1066
I was there too and I concur with everything you said. The organisation was faultless, the weather perfect (although I got a touch of the sun). The only complaint I heard was that the poppies landed to the right of the crowd. Even one or two of the vets had trouble in understanding crosswind and the unfortunate requirement to stay so high. Not like that in my day!
I was there too and I concur with everything you said. The organisation was faultless, the weather perfect (although I got a touch of the sun). The only complaint I heard was that the poppies landed to the right of the crowd. Even one or two of the vets had trouble in understanding crosswind and the unfortunate requirement to stay so high. Not like that in my day!
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Damn fine memorial for a damn fine bunch of men.
It's days like these that make me proud to have (in my own teeny weeny spanner wielding way) in such an organisation.
Full of leaders, heroes, ordinary blokes just doing what needed to be done.
I don't intend to lower this post as to thoughts about the PC nowadays.
Forget em?? not on my watch.
With planning and precision my first born will be here in november and his first event will be rememberance sunday. I intend to start him young in the sacrifices made that he can choose to speak german should he wish.
God speed to all, to all those having left this life behind - hope the beer is cold, the skies clear and the troops stood down....
It's days like these that make me proud to have (in my own teeny weeny spanner wielding way) in such an organisation.
Full of leaders, heroes, ordinary blokes just doing what needed to be done.
I don't intend to lower this post as to thoughts about the PC nowadays.
Forget em?? not on my watch.
With planning and precision my first born will be here in november and his first event will be rememberance sunday. I intend to start him young in the sacrifices made that he can choose to speak german should he wish.
God speed to all, to all those having left this life behind - hope the beer is cold, the skies clear and the troops stood down....
Just watched a recording of the pogramme - I was out yesterday. The Memorial is brilliant, and the programme pretty well done too. I met many veterans in 1992 when I was involved in the Pathfinders 50th Anniversary - I hope some of them were there yesterday - to all of those that survived and those that sadly did not - Thank you - we WILL remember you. Lot of dust in the air here.........
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Couldn't be there....
I couldn't make it yesterday which was a great shame.
Having had the privilege of meeting many Bomber Command aircrew, particularly those that served in 3 Group at Chedburgh, Stradishall and Mildenhall, most of which have now departed us and reside with their old friends, I felt very humbled. There was an ex Halifax crew menber on Radio Suffolk yesterday morning who was too ill to attend the ceremony. If only I'd known, I'd have taken him down, pushed his wheelchair, shook his hand warmly and said thanks as those poppies dropped.
There was a lot of dust in the air near me yesterday. Thankyou and well done to all concerned, this country isn't all bad is it.
Having had the privilege of meeting many Bomber Command aircrew, particularly those that served in 3 Group at Chedburgh, Stradishall and Mildenhall, most of which have now departed us and reside with their old friends, I felt very humbled. There was an ex Halifax crew menber on Radio Suffolk yesterday morning who was too ill to attend the ceremony. If only I'd known, I'd have taken him down, pushed his wheelchair, shook his hand warmly and said thanks as those poppies dropped.
There was a lot of dust in the air near me yesterday. Thankyou and well done to all concerned, this country isn't all bad is it.
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I have not yet seen the memorial, but I thought that Rowan Moore's article in The Observer (not quite The Grauniad, but a nice distinction) was quite thought-provoking.
Compare and contrast the ease with which some posters dismiss the killing of innocent civilians then, with the modern approach to avoiding "collateral damage" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think we might have moved on a little in seventy years...
Compare and contrast the ease with which some posters dismiss the killing of innocent civilians then, with the modern approach to avoiding "collateral damage" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think we might have moved on a little in seventy years...
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The Few
The relevant paragraph of the "Few" speech. Without detriment to the Battle of Britain Fighter pilots, the praise in Churchill's speech is surely directed at the Bomber crews. Judge for yourself:
The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain.
I occasionally play golf with an 86 year old ex tail gunner who will have a pint on me next time we meet.
The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day; but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers, who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain.
I occasionally play golf with an 86 year old ex tail gunner who will have a pint on me next time we meet.
TP:
Which posters are you referring to, TP? I haven't noticed them. WWII was total war. The technology of the time could, just about, get a loaded bomber over an enemy city at night, for unescorted daylight missions even for the heavily armed USAAF were essentially one way. Having got there the only realistic target for Main Force was the city itself. There may well have been an aiming point; marshalling yards, docks, whatever, but the resultant bomb fall would have straddled the city and the countryside beyond. Even at the end, with all the additional technical aids available, that remained the case. Harris bombed cities because he could. He didn't bomb precision targets (with Main Force) because he couldn't.
The "little" that we have moved forward in 70 years is down to technology. If Harris had then what we have now then the "Panacea" targets would have been realistic targets. He didn't, so they weren't.
The RAF Bombing Campaign was a major factor in winning the War in Europe. If we had conducted it "avoiding collateral damage" it would have had to be conducted by day. That would not have worked because:
1. The daylight skies were full of USAAF bombers and escorts who also destroyed cities, and
2. Harris would not have had a Command left within months
I would in contrast rather note the ease with which those such as Mr Moore can reorganise a war which, luckily for him and for me, we won thanks in part to Bomber Command Aircrew. If he had actually directed it, I would have to end this post by wishing you, "Heil Hitler", or whatever!
Compare and contrast the ease with which some posters dismiss the killing of innocent civilians then, with the modern approach to avoiding "collateral damage" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think we might have moved on a little in seventy years...
29th Jun 2012 16:10
I think we might have moved on a little in seventy years...
29th Jun 2012 16:10
The "little" that we have moved forward in 70 years is down to technology. If Harris had then what we have now then the "Panacea" targets would have been realistic targets. He didn't, so they weren't.
The RAF Bombing Campaign was a major factor in winning the War in Europe. If we had conducted it "avoiding collateral damage" it would have had to be conducted by day. That would not have worked because:
1. The daylight skies were full of USAAF bombers and escorts who also destroyed cities, and
2. Harris would not have had a Command left within months
I would in contrast rather note the ease with which those such as Mr Moore can reorganise a war which, luckily for him and for me, we won thanks in part to Bomber Command Aircrew. If he had actually directed it, I would have to end this post by wishing you, "Heil Hitler", or whatever!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 29th Jun 2012 at 20:23.
I note today The Guardian has decided to up the ante in its contempt for the memorial with a new piece:
The artistic jingoism of the Bomber Command memorial | Jonathan Jones | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
It mystifies me how anyone can look at that beautiful structure and that beautiful ceremony and its beautiful sentiment and then sit down to criticise and carp about it. Sigh.
One can take some comfort from reading the comments left below the piece. Overwhelmingly they decry the author, his views and the publisher for printing them whilst praising the memorial itself.
WWW
The artistic jingoism of the Bomber Command memorial | Jonathan Jones | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
The architectural crassness of Liam O'Connor's pavilion is like the nervously loud voice of someone trying to shout down opposition.
It mystifies me how anyone can look at that beautiful structure and that beautiful ceremony and its beautiful sentiment and then sit down to criticise and carp about it. Sigh.
One can take some comfort from reading the comments left below the piece. Overwhelmingly they decry the author, his views and the publisher for printing them whilst praising the memorial itself.
WWW
From Jonathan Jones's Grauniad piece:
It doesn't JJ, you do
Yes, but more importantly they helped to end the war with victory for the Allies rather than for the Axis Powers.
Even a monstrous bunker as built by the Organisation Todt could never drown out opposition from the likes of you Mr Jones. It is your right to oppose that these 55573 men fought and died for. Their surviving colleagues seem well pleased with the Memorial and that is good enough for me. On the other hand that you are not is of supreme indifference.
Thanks again for the link WWW. I think that Mr Jonathon Jones has told us more about himself and the sheltered life that he leads than he has about the BC Memorial, Harris, Bomber Command, or its Aircrew.
If the memorial in Green Park seems strident and hysterical in design
Did massive air raids on German cities help to end the war more quickly?
The architectural crassness of Liam O'Connor's pavilion is like the nervously loud voice of someone trying to shout down opposition.
Thanks again for the link WWW. I think that Mr Jonathon Jones has told us more about himself and the sheltered life that he leads than he has about the BC Memorial, Harris, Bomber Command, or its Aircrew.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 30th Jun 2012 at 09:31.
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Nah! Loathsome publication - fish 'n chips far too good for it. It has only ONE useful purpose and that's only in the event of a total collapse of supplies of Andrex....