Return of Service...is it possible to escape?
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mate, I recently PVR'd and have been told I must serve my full RofS even though I am not in the job I was training for any more. The deskie was utterly inflexible and things don't look good for me getting out early. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to chat things over.
It does seem strange (idiotic really) that the RAF won't let me go willingly at the same time they are making hundreds of people redundant. Still, if they want to pay me 50K pa while I sit on my ass and do nothing then that's fine with me. Any journos reading this who want to chat?
It does seem strange (idiotic really) that the RAF won't let me go willingly at the same time they are making hundreds of people redundant. Still, if they want to pay me 50K pa while I sit on my ass and do nothing then that's fine with me. Any journos reading this who want to chat?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I have spoken to the deskie, that's what spurred this thread in the first place. The conversation went something along the lines of can I fly Voyager - NO, Can I have Captaincy - NO, Can I leave - NO.
Right, so I have to stay exactly where I am until I have lost the will to live?!
It's just very frustrating.
The RAF has changed beyond all recognition in the last few years and crewroom chat is no-longer about great routes or fantastic expeditions, but more about who has PVR'd this week and what jobs they have lined up!
Right, so I have to stay exactly where I am until I have lost the will to live?!
It's just very frustrating. The RAF has changed beyond all recognition in the last few years and crewroom chat is no-longer about great routes or fantastic expeditions, but more about who has PVR'd this week and what jobs they have lined up!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, I haven't actually signed a ROS for my latest OCU. Does that mean that by completeing the course and signing the final report that I am bound by a rule hidden in some RAF publication? Or is there actual ROS paperwork that I should have been given?
I don't know how quickly you want to get out, or what the RoS you are supposedly committed to is, but as I said before, simply fail your fitness test...
Its black and white stated RAF policy that successive failure of the fitness test is followed by formal warning and then admin discharge. You will be out in about 40 weeks I think, with no stain on your character.
Alternatively they ignore their own rules and try to keep someone in who can only run one length of the gym, and open themselves up to legal recourse from those they are still dismissing for failing the test....
Simples.
Its black and white stated RAF policy that successive failure of the fitness test is followed by formal warning and then admin discharge. You will be out in about 40 weeks I think, with no stain on your character.
Alternatively they ignore their own rules and try to keep someone in who can only run one length of the gym, and open themselves up to legal recourse from those they are still dismissing for failing the test....
Simples.
Champagne anyone...?
When I was initially pondering jacking it all in I asked the Deskenfuhrer if I could transfer to a different ME fleet just for a "change of scenery".
"No, " quoth he "you're an experienced instructor and we need to keep you on your current type"
"But I'm disillusioned and frustrated with it all and need a change for a bit"
"Tough"
"I'd rather PVR than carry on doing what I'm currently doing"
"Well we're not going to let you change fleets. We need you on this one."
"Bye then"
"Bye"
You can't argue with that sort of logic
The ME world can't afford to let too many people go as they're going to need a pile of people to man the A400 when it appears. Thus they're trying to keep people hanging on long enough to fill the seats when the thing finally turns up. Sadly there is stuff all to offer folk in the meantime. Sitting at the bedside, watching the slow euthanasia of the Herc force et al is no place for keen young folk....
"No, " quoth he "you're an experienced instructor and we need to keep you on your current type"
"But I'm disillusioned and frustrated with it all and need a change for a bit"
"Tough"
"I'd rather PVR than carry on doing what I'm currently doing"
"Well we're not going to let you change fleets. We need you on this one."
"Bye then"
"Bye"
You can't argue with that sort of logic
The ME world can't afford to let too many people go as they're going to need a pile of people to man the A400 when it appears. Thus they're trying to keep people hanging on long enough to fill the seats when the thing finally turns up. Sadly there is stuff all to offer folk in the meantime. Sitting at the bedside, watching the slow euthanasia of the Herc force et al is no place for keen young folk....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leo Abse MP served in the RAF and was an active member of the post WW2 'Forces Parliament', calling for (among other things) the nationalisation of the Bank of England (heresy!) and warm, fluffy socks. He was arrested (for the former, presumably) and shuffled out early.
All these ideas about trying to leave through failing fitness tests, standing for parliament, suddenly becoming a conscientious objector etc. are pure hogwash. You need to complete the RoS following the OCU course and then consider your options further.
Why does your DeskO say that you cannot become a captain in your current fleet? That strikes me as rather an odd comment for him to have made.
I guess another spin-off from the creeping cancer of contractorisation is that the QFI route is no longer available?
Just stick with it until A400M comes into service, I'd say.
Why does your DeskO say that you cannot become a captain in your current fleet? That strikes me as rather an odd comment for him to have made.
I guess another spin-off from the creeping cancer of contractorisation is that the QFI route is no longer available?
Just stick with it until A400M comes into service, I'd say.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timing is Everything
My RoS is 2 years at the moment. It's not the end of the world but I do feel it is a waste of my time when I just want to get on with my life and find a job where I can make progress.
It's a 'No' for captaincy until I have another board. I have already passed one board before being sent to the J with the promise of a captains course in Jan 12. That course was scrubbed when SDSR happened.
The future of the J is Tac, I am not Tac because that would require a 4 month course, afterwhich I would be starting at the bottom of a 3rd sqn of co-pilots! Therefore if I am boarded for captaincy it is highly unlikely that I am going to get a captains course on the J. I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic.
Given that someone on the J OCU captains course has just PVR'd, yet no-one is making moves to fill the course with another prospective captain to save wasting a slot, it all adds up to rather low morale and a case of exceptionally bad timing on my part!
It's a 'No' for captaincy until I have another board. I have already passed one board before being sent to the J with the promise of a captains course in Jan 12. That course was scrubbed when SDSR happened.
The future of the J is Tac, I am not Tac because that would require a 4 month course, afterwhich I would be starting at the bottom of a 3rd sqn of co-pilots! Therefore if I am boarded for captaincy it is highly unlikely that I am going to get a captains course on the J. I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic.
Given that someone on the J OCU captains course has just PVR'd, yet no-one is making moves to fill the course with another prospective captain to save wasting a slot, it all adds up to rather low morale and a case of exceptionally bad timing on my part!
Last edited by Minstral; 29th Jun 2012 at 12:57.
I was just wondering if anyone has managed to leave the RAF before their Return of Service date. If so, how did you do it?
Noting the tenor of many of the responses, and with apologies for upsetting anyone (least of all you), no one seems to have come up with an absolutely foolproof recommendation for someone in the circumstances you describe, ie. they could always top themself ......
I was hoping to be employable afterward and I'm trying to avoid getting a shocking report before departing, if at all possible!
No probs - anyone following this route would only a. have to be careful about the modus operandi, and b.donate their body to medical science, in which case there would be no need to worry about a shocking report!
Jack
Noting the tenor of many of the responses, and with apologies for upsetting anyone (least of all you), no one seems to have come up with an absolutely foolproof recommendation for someone in the circumstances you describe, ie. they could always top themself ......
I was hoping to be employable afterward and I'm trying to avoid getting a shocking report before departing, if at all possible!
No probs - anyone following this route would only a. have to be careful about the modus operandi, and b.donate their body to medical science, in which case there would be no need to worry about a shocking report!
Jack
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct, I am not legally knowledgable.
I am able to observe things that happen around me though.
For example, in my career I saw two mates just walk out and go AWOL.
I'm not suggesting it's a good idea, but the mob made no attempt to chase them, because its too much trouble.
I also know of more than one who have just given a month and walked uncontested.
I know of another who stopped working for a year and got another job without the mob even noticing!
I am able to observe things that happen around me though.
For example, in my career I saw two mates just walk out and go AWOL.
I'm not suggesting it's a good idea, but the mob made no attempt to chase them, because its too much trouble.
I also know of more than one who have just given a month and walked uncontested.
I know of another who stopped working for a year and got another job without the mob even noticing!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in the mess
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
& I know one who left early, went abroad, had a great time. Until he was arrested at the airport on re-entering the country and went to serve time at Colchester.
Maybe your chums were lucky, or the mob weren't bothered about them, but for my colleague, his holiday came with a bad case of the blues afterwards...
To the OP, the reality is, there's no way out of it. Another friend, for whom money was not an issue, had the best lawyers on his case and concluded he had to see out his time.
So, you'll just have to make something worthwhile of your remaining time. From Hamlet :"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison."
You'll just have to think of it is something other than a prison. You're a co, right? = little responsibility, so get some AT organised (it is possible, despite the nay-sayers), make your own life fun, no-one else is going to do that for you! Much as Brize isn't Lyneham, it sure is a great part of the country. Buy a fast car, meet some girls in Cheltenham, Jeez, there's a bunch of people who would swap places with you. Happy happy, mustn't grumble!
Maybe your chums were lucky, or the mob weren't bothered about them, but for my colleague, his holiday came with a bad case of the blues afterwards...
To the OP, the reality is, there's no way out of it. Another friend, for whom money was not an issue, had the best lawyers on his case and concluded he had to see out his time.
So, you'll just have to make something worthwhile of your remaining time. From Hamlet :"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison."
You'll just have to think of it is something other than a prison. You're a co, right? = little responsibility, so get some AT organised (it is possible, despite the nay-sayers), make your own life fun, no-one else is going to do that for you! Much as Brize isn't Lyneham, it sure is a great part of the country. Buy a fast car, meet some girls in Cheltenham, Jeez, there's a bunch of people who would swap places with you.
Happy happy, mustn't grumble!Last edited by nice castle; 30th Jun 2012 at 13:37.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it just me or is there a distinct feeling that the regulations etc are designed for steady state and that they are being applied (over) zealously now in what are pretty exceptional circumstances?
SDSR, course cancellations, reduced or unclear promotion prospects, pension reform etc are all exceptional circumstances.
This thread is only in existence because individuals are expected to 'walk off' the consequences of SDSR whilst toeing the line.
SDSR, course cancellations, reduced or unclear promotion prospects, pension reform etc are all exceptional circumstances.
This thread is only in existence because individuals are expected to 'walk off' the consequences of SDSR whilst toeing the line.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Civ/HAL/SHY/FYY/PWK/AAS/WAD/AVI/GPT/BZN/BSN/WAD/BAS/FLK/WIT/MND/WAD/WIT/WAD/Civ
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only a rumour I heard:
Find a Bye-Election and put yourself up for election. As a registered Voter it is your right to stand, however, the Military deem this as a conflict of interest and will allow you to walk with no notice.
Of course, your campaign will fail due to a lack of effort/manifesto/policies etc and it will cost you your deposit if enough people don't vote for you, but by that time, you'll be out with a clean reputation.
Risk: You might win!
In Reality:
I ended up with a 23-stone Morale-Sponge (he was named in the RAFFT policy change of 3yrs ago (must pass RAFFT* to graduate Ph2 trg))
He tried everything in the book to leave early - Med, Shrinks, Padre, SSAFA, RAFA, BL etc. (In order to leave, each & every one of these open files needs to be CLOSED. The more you open, the harder it is to leave)
Eventually, once we had got these all closed down, Trade Sponsor supported a waiver of RoS and Desk supported a waiver of PVR waiting time and he left....
5 days short of 2yrs service, so no Preserved Pension Rights and having only provided 8 productive days of service in that 722 days of pay.
Good Riddance.
His leaving gift?
A Packet of Wafer Thin Mints!!!
*He later confessed that the RAFFT he passed to graduate Halton, after 14wks holding, had cost him a pack of Jaffa Cakes)
Find a Bye-Election and put yourself up for election. As a registered Voter it is your right to stand, however, the Military deem this as a conflict of interest and will allow you to walk with no notice.
Of course, your campaign will fail due to a lack of effort/manifesto/policies etc and it will cost you your deposit if enough people don't vote for you, but by that time, you'll be out with a clean reputation.
Risk: You might win!
In Reality:
I ended up with a 23-stone Morale-Sponge (he was named in the RAFFT policy change of 3yrs ago (must pass RAFFT* to graduate Ph2 trg))
He tried everything in the book to leave early - Med, Shrinks, Padre, SSAFA, RAFA, BL etc. (In order to leave, each & every one of these open files needs to be CLOSED. The more you open, the harder it is to leave)
Eventually, once we had got these all closed down, Trade Sponsor supported a waiver of RoS and Desk supported a waiver of PVR waiting time and he left....
5 days short of 2yrs service, so no Preserved Pension Rights and having only provided 8 productive days of service in that 722 days of pay.
Good Riddance.
His leaving gift?
A Packet of Wafer Thin Mints!!!
*He later confessed that the RAFFT he passed to graduate Halton, after 14wks holding, had cost him a pack of Jaffa Cakes)
