Basing? Decisions?
Some meat on the bone of the NEM, as it was explained to me yesterday is:
3 blocks of service - first of 8-10 years, second of 10 years and third to potentially take pers to age 60. Heavily subsidised SFA would only be available to those pers in block 1. Block 2 pers would be able to take advantage of a hugely increased LSAP (Up to 50K) to get them on to the housing market. Block 1 pers would also still be able to access LSAP but not as much as block 2 pers. They are also looking to get a greater degree of stability and to improve the (Apalling imo) Proj Zeus and Sirius. The paper on NEM should be signed off later this year/early 2013.
3 blocks of service - first of 8-10 years, second of 10 years and third to potentially take pers to age 60. Heavily subsidised SFA would only be available to those pers in block 1. Block 2 pers would be able to take advantage of a hugely increased LSAP (Up to 50K) to get them on to the housing market. Block 1 pers would also still be able to access LSAP but not as much as block 2 pers. They are also looking to get a greater degree of stability and to improve the (Apalling imo) Proj Zeus and Sirius. The paper on NEM should be signed off later this year/early 2013.
Climbear
Sorry to drag this out but I'm still not getting it:
As I understand it (my comments in green):
Aircraft belong to Army (JHC) - So why do they have "Royal Air Force" logos on them? I believe they are RAF assets and are on loan (TACOM) to JHC
Costs of people (eg salaries and T&S) fall to Army (JHC) (for now). - Salaries no, but T&S will come from JHC budget
Land and buildings and cost of maintaining them fall to DIO - As is any MOD property - sadly!
All other costs (eg utilities, aviation fuel) fall to Army (JHC) - Fuel yes, but utilities is a no - eg. there is no way that JHC would pick up the bill for Oxford UAS for utilities at RAF Benson.
Full command of RAF personnel on the 2 stations fall to Air (1 Gp) (I believe that this may also include acting as higher authority for discipline). - agree
I guess the bottom line is who gives the 2 stn cdrs their TORs and writes their OJARs. - probably a 1 star in JHC as 1RO and AOC 1Gp as 2RO would be my guess?
Can anyone, from RAF Benson or RAF Odiham point us to some de facto info on the internet? Or are you just as confused as the rest of us?
LJ
Sorry to drag this out but I'm still not getting it:
As I understand it (my comments in green):
Aircraft belong to Army (JHC) - So why do they have "Royal Air Force" logos on them? I believe they are RAF assets and are on loan (TACOM) to JHC
Costs of people (eg salaries and T&S) fall to Army (JHC) (for now). - Salaries no, but T&S will come from JHC budget
Land and buildings and cost of maintaining them fall to DIO - As is any MOD property - sadly!
All other costs (eg utilities, aviation fuel) fall to Army (JHC) - Fuel yes, but utilities is a no - eg. there is no way that JHC would pick up the bill for Oxford UAS for utilities at RAF Benson.
Full command of RAF personnel on the 2 stations fall to Air (1 Gp) (I believe that this may also include acting as higher authority for discipline). - agree
I guess the bottom line is who gives the 2 stn cdrs their TORs and writes their OJARs. - probably a 1 star in JHC as 1RO and AOC 1Gp as 2RO would be my guess?
Can anyone, from RAF Benson or RAF Odiham point us to some de facto info on the internet? Or are you just as confused as the rest of us?
LJ
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LJ
It's one hell of a confusing picture.
IRRC the aircraft transfered across to LAND's asset register. As for having Royal Air Force written on them, it was much the same as having Royal Navy written on the Harriers (GR) of the NSW.
Utilities - much the same as Leuchars picking up the tab for 71 Eng Regt (V).
The Army's intranet org system has the 2 stations as OPCOM JHC, BUDCON JHC, ADMINCON - AIR.
It used to be so simple; however, now we have the Army responsible for training RAF Loggies and RN Chefs (amongst others) and the RAF responsible for training Army signallers and RN engineers.
Several RAF Squadrons within Army (JHC) and a Royal Artillery Regiment within Air Command.
It's one hell of a confusing picture.
IRRC the aircraft transfered across to LAND's asset register. As for having Royal Air Force written on them, it was much the same as having Royal Navy written on the Harriers (GR) of the NSW.
Utilities - much the same as Leuchars picking up the tab for 71 Eng Regt (V).
The Army's intranet org system has the 2 stations as OPCOM JHC, BUDCON JHC, ADMINCON - AIR.
It used to be so simple; however, now we have the Army responsible for training RAF Loggies and RN Chefs (amongst others) and the RAF responsible for training Army signallers and RN engineers.
Several RAF Squadrons within Army (JHC) and a Royal Artillery Regiment within Air Command.
Last edited by Climebear; 16th May 2012 at 21:38.
I think 1 Regt disappear as part of the Wildact upgrade
Leon - Ben / Odi Stn Cdrs report direct to JHC for TORs, OJARs etc. As has been described already, think of JHC as being loaned the assets (stns, ac and personnel) by the respective single services. It's a bit like children at school - no comparisons of JHC to a creche please (far too obvious!). The parents 'own' the children and have ultimate responsibility for them. However each day then take them to school and hand them over to a teacher who is responsible for what they get up to during the day, discipline etc. As 'owners' the parents have an input and ultimate sanction, but in practice let the school get on with things unless it all starts going horribly wrong.
Damning report condemns 'unclear' British foreign policy - Telegraph
There's a tenuous link here, no pun intended, but a relevant one I feel just the same.
FB
There's a tenuous link here, no pun intended, but a relevant one I feel just the same.
FB
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Melchett. I agree with the people being 'loaned' to the Army (more like Association Football teams than a crèche perhaps) as indeed I am 'loaned' to another Army formation. I remain, and am fiercely proud of being, in the RAF. However, the transfer of assets is less clear. They all transfered across to the LAND asset register (with the estate now transferred onto DIO). So how do we determine 'ownership' (especially with some of the ac going to the RN - but remaining in JHC)? It was interesting to note that the RAF role out of PAYD excluded Benson and Odiham as they were included in the Army contracts.
Now that capability directorates are being rusticated to single-Services, it would be interesting to see where responsibility for SH will sit. I honestly don't know this;but, whoever runs the capability has the money. Having the money gives a fair degree of ownership.
Now that capability directorates are being rusticated to single-Services, it would be interesting to see where responsibility for SH will sit. I honestly don't know this;but, whoever runs the capability has the money. Having the money gives a fair degree of ownership.
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How about somewhere like Yeovilton:
RN Lynx - assets RN (DE&S really), under command CO Yeovilton
CHF - assets JHC (DE&S really), under command JHC
NFSF(FW) - assets Air Cmd (DE&S), under command CFS(?)
727 NAS - assets Air Cmd, under command CO Yeovilton
Viking RM - assets RN(?), under command CO Chivenor
RNHF - assets RN, under command CO Yeovilton
DE&S - under command Abbey Wood
JEWCS - under command NATO
Flight Safety Centre - under command FLEET AV
Bird Control Unit - under command CO Yeovilton (but difficult to command birds!)
RN Lynx - assets RN (DE&S really), under command CO Yeovilton
CHF - assets JHC (DE&S really), under command JHC
NFSF(FW) - assets Air Cmd (DE&S), under command CFS(?)
727 NAS - assets Air Cmd, under command CO Yeovilton
Viking RM - assets RN(?), under command CO Chivenor
RNHF - assets RN, under command CO Yeovilton
DE&S - under command Abbey Wood
JEWCS - under command NATO
Flight Safety Centre - under command FLEET AV
Bird Control Unit - under command CO Yeovilton (but difficult to command birds!)
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Similar at a secret Fife fighter (now fighter-bomber) station:
Fg Sqn(s) - under command of Stn Cdr
Wgs - under command of Stn Cdr
FP Wg HQ and RAF Regt Sqn - under command of FP Force HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
Resident R Aux AF Sqn - under command of A4 Force HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
TA Regt - under command of Regional Bde
RAF Police Flight - under command of PM(RAF)
Dentist - under command of Regional DDS (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
MRT - under command of SARF HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
DCRE - under RE command.
ESUAS - under command of CFS(though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
Fire and Rescue - under command of DFRMO (Army).
Bird Control Unit - contractorised!
...
Looking at it from another way.
The training of Movers takes place at RAF Brize Norton by an organisation (within the Army TLB) commanded by a sqn ldr (over which CO BZN has disciplinary powers of CO) who, in turn, is commanded by a wg cdr (also within the Army TLB) at RAF Halton (over which CO HAL has disciplinary powers of CO) who, in turn, is commanded by a Col then Brig at Deepcut followed by Maj Gen at Upavon, Lt Gen at Andover...
Fg Sqn(s) - under command of Stn Cdr
Wgs - under command of Stn Cdr
FP Wg HQ and RAF Regt Sqn - under command of FP Force HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
Resident R Aux AF Sqn - under command of A4 Force HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
TA Regt - under command of Regional Bde
RAF Police Flight - under command of PM(RAF)
Dentist - under command of Regional DDS (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
MRT - under command of SARF HQ (though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
DCRE - under RE command.
ESUAS - under command of CFS(though stn cdr has disciplinary powers of CO)
Fire and Rescue - under command of DFRMO (Army).
Bird Control Unit - contractorised!
...
Looking at it from another way.
The training of Movers takes place at RAF Brize Norton by an organisation (within the Army TLB) commanded by a sqn ldr (over which CO BZN has disciplinary powers of CO) who, in turn, is commanded by a wg cdr (also within the Army TLB) at RAF Halton (over which CO HAL has disciplinary powers of CO) who, in turn, is commanded by a Col then Brig at Deepcut followed by Maj Gen at Upavon, Lt Gen at Andover...
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I would sugegst that, in the current situation, it would be more a case of reducing assets at one location and moving other assets into the empty spaces - maximising our current capacity rather than creating more.
(Just to add that I am not advocating for either option as I do not have the facts to enable a educated view)
(Just to add that I am not advocating for either option as I do not have the facts to enable a educated view)
Last edited by Climebear; 17th May 2012 at 11:57.
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What's mysterious about a local newspaper slanting the facts to help their local argument, i.e. keeping Leuchars open as an RAF base.
Was the RAF supposed to stop building up Typhoon Sqns prior to the move to Lossie? If not, where would they be most likely to put the new Typhoon Sqn, other than in a current Typhoon base?
Was the RAF supposed to stop building up Typhoon Sqns prior to the move to Lossie? If not, where would they be most likely to put the new Typhoon Sqn, other than in a current Typhoon base?