RAF Para Wing observation

[500N]

CC

Put another way, your joke would have gone down much better
if people could see the dog !

[Airborne Aircrew]

El Presidente:

The sooner we loose our infatuation with willy waving (I'm more important than you) the better...morale is low enough as it is without the addition of unchecked ego...

People work hard for certain things. Very hard. Allowing random wannabees to swan around wearing insignia they haven't earned is a far bigger detriment to morale and discipline than your perceived "willy waving".

Your post smacks of someone that has never done anything worthwhile or difficult in their life. As I said before, the training/selection that takes place before Brize makes a man Airborne, Brize merely confirms it. But Brize does not replace the training/selection and it never can. Lot's of people can jump from an aircraft, it's really rather easy and fun if you are of the right frame of mind. There is nothing "fun" about the prior training/selection. You can trust me on that.

As for the TSW chap... I'm sure he's a spiffing chap... Respect and all that... But he's a REMF that was needed where he went and was well protected by others... People who had gone through the training/selection and passed it... I'm sure he felt quite safe. I'm not being disrespectful to him, I'm merely pointing out the realities...

[longer ron]

'Fun' jumping out of a serviceable aircraft ?? ...shurely shum mishtake there

[El_Presidente]

AA, calm down dear... Chip on your shoulder?

I have had to work hard at quite a few things in my life actually chum; others came easier. For example, passing my ISS was tough but 6 months based in the OSB leading 2 foot/vehicle patrols a day ... now that was a doddle.

Now, are you fishing for a bite or just plain so far up your own derrier that you've lost the map pointing the way out...?

My point is quite simple - we all have a role to play and willy waving only serves to piss people off. Pissing people off is not conducive to team work. Task, team, org...

[Airborne Aircrew]

El P:

AA, calm down dear... Chip on your shoulder?

No chip Princess...just a feeling that people should be allowed to present who and what they are with their insignia without fear of other, less qualified, people pretending.

Just so we are clear, what is ISS and OSB in today's terms... Just so I know who I'm talking to and all that...

[Roadster280]

Jesus, there's a lesson in humility.

I just got a 27" iMac, 2560 x 1440, and I can't get the bloody dog image in!

Edited to add, I did well at school but not that well!

[Climebear]

AA

I might be being a snob but if you haven't passed Pre-Para or P-Coy then you can't wear wings...

Unfortunately, the Royal Air Force doesn't agree with your viewpoint.

PA

Any chance of a female Walt or is there some bizarre way RAF chap/chapettes wear Para wings without doing the selection course and bluffing the jumps phase?

QR(RAF) 435 only stipulates that the individual has to pass either the Basic Parachuting Course or the SF Parachuting Course and then serve in an established post attracting either para or PJI pay to be entitled to wear the prachute badge (with wings). Although some elements of the Armed Forces require Pre-Para or P-Coy prior to undertaking the Basic Parachuting Course it is not a course pre-requisite.

Those that complete the Basic Parachuting Course but do not fill an established post attracting para/PJI pay should only wear the parachute badge (without wings).

:Geek mode on:

Back to the original subject individual then, it would appear that:

a. PJI brevet is worn correctly iaw QR 435 (3) and AP1358 Chap 7 Para 0712.

b. ‘Badge, arm, parachutist (with wings)’ is worn correctly iaw QR 435 (1) and AP1358 Chap 7 Para 0715.

c. PTI badge is not worn correctly as it should not be worn by WOs iaw AP1358 Chap 7 Para 0736.

:Geek mode off:

It would appear that the standard of SWOs may well have dropped if we are letting our people appear incorrectly dressed before Royalty.

[Clockwork Mouse]

I think some of you are confusing the path taken to earn parachute wings with that taken to earn the maroon beret.
Para wings are earned by doing the requisite ground training followed by the appropriate number of qualifying jumps.
The maroon beret is earned by passing P Company with all the blood, sweat, toil and tears that go with it.
Big difference.

[Top Bunk Tester]

I must say that I know TI and he's a thoroughly decent chap, but I'm surprised no-one has yet had a go as to why PJI's get to wear a brevet without going anywhere near selection at Sleaford Tech or Biggin Hill for the slightly more mature individual, or having to sweat blood and tears through AAITC. Granted P Coy is as tough if not tougher, but they don't do that either. If a Jubilee Medal is considered as a cornflake pack medal then surely the PJI brevet is a chocolate one.

Oh and I've taken off 1500 more times than I've landed in an a/c, but still, quite rightly, don't wear wings.

[The Helpful Stacker]

CM - It used to be the case that passing P-Coy was a prerequisite of being able to wear the maroon beret but that went years ago, shortly before they started to dish them out to anyone posted to 16 Air Assault Brigade. I know of a gym-shy RAF MT Sgt who was posted onto 16 Air Assault's strength and took particularly delight in the fact he was now to wear the previously coveted maroon beret.

Perhaps this is where AA should be directing his poorly aimed venom rather than the apparent issue he has with parachute qualification badges which, as already well covered, has (and never has had) nothing to do with a perceived requirement to attend pre-para/p-coy.

[orgASMic]

Politely Amused - the female you refer to could be an acquaintance who is an ex-PJI (she was on the PJI course at PTS as a sgt when i was on my BPC), now commissioned into the Flt Ops branch and serving in HQ 16 AA Bde. She wears her PJI brevet and Para wings and is hard as nails when she needs to be.

[StopStart]

TBT - they work as dispatch crew on the aircraft. I think I'm correct in saying that all RAF personnel that formally work as crew whilst the aircraft is airborne receive a brevet of some sort.

I can probably find you a few CDS containers that have 1500 more take offs than landings. None of them have brevets either

[Climebear]

'Other' brevets, in addition to 'Pilot' and 'Rear Aircrew' flying badges, include:

Airborne Image Analyst (IA)

Fighter Controller (FC)

Airborne Technician (AT)

[Airborne Aircrew]

TBT:

or having to sweat blood and tears through AAITC. Granted P Coy is as tough if not tougher

Sorry but there is a huge bubble that needs to be burst here. AAITC is nowhere near as physically demanding as Pre-Para or P Coy. Not even close.

[charliegolf]

Sorry but there is a huge bubble that needs to be burst here. AAITC is nowhere near as physically demanding as Pre-Para or P Coy. Not even close.

93 Cse, AAITC- a walk in the park. With the occasional jog and a bad hair do. Actually, it is a challenging course, AA, and the physical was only a small bit of it. But I do concede your bubble burst.

CG

[parabellum]

People work hard for certain things. Very hard. Allowing random wannabees to swan around wearing insignia they haven't earned is a far bigger detriment to morale and discipline than your perceived "willy waving".

When I attended an AAC seminar in BAOR back in the sixties the then Commander, 1 Br Corps addressed the seminar and was presented with 'honorary' pilots wings which he wore for the remainder of his military life.
Many of us felt this was altogether wrong as he never attended a pilots course, I still wonder if it was 'correct' and allowed?

[Clockwork Mouse]

Perhaps because he had been appointed Colonel Commandant of the AAC. And if I remember correctly he was given an abbreviated pilot's course so could handle an aircraft though not fly operationally.

[gsa]

The maroon beret is earned by passing P Company with all the blood, sweat, toil and tears that go with it

Not any more it isn't, they wear the maroon beret from early on at Catterick during basic training. It was changed a few years ago to give them some "belonging" feeling.

[Finnpog]

No so the Cdo green beret, however.

[Climebear]

When I attended an AAC seminar in BAOR back in the sixties the then Commander, 1 Br Corps addressed the seminar and was presented with 'honorary' pilots wings which he wore for the remainder of his military life.
Many of us felt this was altogether wrong as he never attended a pilots course, I still wonder if it was 'correct' and allowed?

Perhaps because he had been appointed Colonel Commandant of the AAC. And if I remember correctly he was given an abbreviated pilot's course so could handle an aircraft though not fly operationally.

And similar to several pilots, and at least one engineer, being presented with and wearing RAF Regt 'mudguards' after being appointed as Commandant General of the RAF Regt.