RAF Para Wing observation
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RAF Para Wing observation
I've just seen a first (for me), and this is in no way a criticism or gripe...
Duchess Gives Out Royal Warrants
In the last photo, a Warrant Officer wears two forms of parachute qualification badges. I know I don't get out much, but how common is this?
Just curious.
Duchess Gives Out Royal Warrants
In the last photo, a Warrant Officer wears two forms of parachute qualification badges. I know I don't get out much, but how common is this?
Just curious.
Doesnt look unusual to me !
The half wing = PJI (para jump instructor)
Para badge on right shoulder = qualified parachutist (who has served with an airborne unit)(or perhaps is operationally qualified)
Edit...perhaps this is a better explanation for the 'operational' wings,it refers to the army but I am sure the RAF will be similar...
The half wing = PJI (para jump instructor)
Para badge on right shoulder = qualified parachutist (who has served with an airborne unit)(or perhaps is operationally qualified)
Edit...perhaps this is a better explanation for the 'operational' wings,it refers to the army but I am sure the RAF will be similar...
The Parachute Badge with Wings insignia, which depicts an open parachute embroidered in white flanked by a pair of wings embroidered in light blue, is only to be worn by a qualified parachutist who has subsequently been on the posted strength of a unit where he may be ordered in the course of his duties to parachute. Those who do not serve with a parachute unit are permitted to wear the Parachute Badge without Wings, colloquially known as the 'Lightbulb'
Last edited by longer ron; 12th May 2012 at 07:25.
Reminds me of the 'Fairy' chief we had on the Canberra ocu at Marham,I believe he had been with the Chindits during WW2 ...he had 'operational' para wings and a few strange medals.During his inspection one year the AOC did a double take and said ''christ you have been around chief'' 
I think the OP is talking about the badge half way down the WO's right sleeve - and above his rank.
Looks like the RAF PTI trade badge, the one you would normally see on their T-shirt / vest in the gym, but this time on No 1 uniform.
Can't post a link for some reason, but if you google RAF qualification badges, it comes up with all the Branch and Trade badges you can wear and this one is on page 7-31.
I'm not sure whether the 'Lightbulb' is still in issue. Had a discussion about this a couple of days back with a good mate who was 'badged' in a couple of units. My argument was that given the number of people you see wandering round with para wings on in the various HQs - especially Army HQs - set against the number of airborne or para qualified units, my guess is that there must be a lot of people out there who have done the jumps course only and thus should be wearing the Lightbulb vice full wings. His thinking was that he couldn't remember a Lightbulb being worn / awarded for a long time and thought that people nowadays just put the wings on regardless.
Looks like the RAF PTI trade badge, the one you would normally see on their T-shirt / vest in the gym, but this time on No 1 uniform.
Can't post a link for some reason, but if you google RAF qualification badges, it comes up with all the Branch and Trade badges you can wear and this one is on page 7-31.
I'm not sure whether the 'Lightbulb' is still in issue. Had a discussion about this a couple of days back with a good mate who was 'badged' in a couple of units. My argument was that given the number of people you see wandering round with para wings on in the various HQs - especially Army HQs - set against the number of airborne or para qualified units, my guess is that there must be a lot of people out there who have done the jumps course only and thus should be wearing the Lightbulb vice full wings. His thinking was that he couldn't remember a Lightbulb being worn / awarded for a long time and thought that people nowadays just put the wings on regardless.
Yes I ignored that one melchett because it is the PTI badge,it did say in the link that the WO concerned was a PTI
The quote I put up about the para wings means it is now a vaguer qualification than it used to be anyway I guess
The quote I put up about the para wings means it is now a vaguer qualification than it used to be anyway I guess
Last edited by longer ron; 12th May 2012 at 10:31.
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I think the OP is talking about the badge half way down the WO's right sleeve - and above his rank.
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The writeup does say he remustered to PTI after a couple of years. I would be surprised if wasn't in the RAF Regt originally, acquiring his para wings there. It then goes on to say that he remustered to PTI, becoming a PJI.
The Army have a special badge for their APJIs, like a normal set of para wings, but with APJI in the centre. You have to have the basic parachutist qualification to go on the APJI course, so only one badge required.
The Army have a special badge for their APJIs, like a normal set of para wings, but with APJI in the centre. You have to have the basic parachutist qualification to go on the APJI course, so only one badge required.
joined the RAF in 1979 as an RAF Policeman. In 1986 he remustered to RAF PTI an on completion of the course was posted to RAF Locking. In 1990 he was posted to RAF Brize Norton on to the Parachute School where he completed the PJI course.
Last edited by Avionker; 12th May 2012 at 13:08.
I'm not sure whether the 'Lightbulb' is still in issue.
As worn by members of the Royal Navy Submarine Parachute Assistance Group (SPAG), vide page 9 of http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and...book/an39e.pdf
Jack
As worn by members of the Royal Navy Submarine Parachute Assistance Group (SPAG), vide page 9 of http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and...book/an39e.pdf
Jack
What puzzles me is the reference to ROYAL Warrant: I thought the essence of WO - ship was that the Warrant was from the Secretary of State, and not the Monarch. The latter surely for commissioned officers?
...... RAF Guterslough ........
WO Coyle recieves his Royal Warrant.
WO Churchyard recieves his Royal Warrant.
WO Isherwood recieves his Royal Warrant.
WO Coyle recieves his Royal Warrant.
WO Churchyard recieves his Royal Warrant.
WO Isherwood recieves his Royal Warrant.
Editor: Flt Lt S Higgins
Last edited by diginagain; 12th May 2012 at 14:23.
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What puzzles me is the reference to ROYAL Warrant: I thought the essence of WO - ship was that the Warrant was from the Secretary of State, and not the Monarch. The latter surely for commissioned officers?
Not that it makes any difference. The oath of allegiance (for Army & RAF) binds the soldier or airman to obey the orders of "Generals and officers set over me". No reference to commissions or warrants. A Lance Corporal derives his authority from the Monarch as much as an MRAF. This of course has led to innumerate problems between RAF SAC(T)s and LCpls. LCpls are officers, SACs are not. Same as Flt Sgts are not WOs, but WO2s are. But then a Flt Sgt's next promotion is to WO, which is above WO2.
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I think the half wing badge is his PJI qualification. As for the para wings I work on the same base which houses an airborne unit and all of their PJI`s (a mixture of army and RAF) wear para wings. I would imagine that at some time he has served a tour on an airborne unit.
I know an officer who was rumbled during Court Martial for wearing para wings rather than the light bulb - however, that offence was 'small beer' compared to the main one!
I agree, their are probably 1000s of Walts out there wearing para wings they shouldn't...
LJ
I agree, their are probably 1000s of Walts out there wearing para wings they shouldn't...
LJ
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No mention of RAF Regiment there Roadster 280.
How does a non-RAF Regt airman earn para wings then?
I was on exercise once with an RAF officer, he was BALO to 5 AB. He wore RAF capbadge on his maroon beret, and Army para wings (as well as RAF pilot wings), as he had passed P Coy. No idea what he wore on his No1s.
I was under the impression you had to complete an "arduous" prep course (P Coy, SFC Selection, AACC) AND serve with an airborne unit to get the wings. I imagine a PTI would have no problem completing the arduous bit, but where's the opportunity?
As an aside, a long time ago I remember reading that para wings are normally worn on the right shoulder, but if the holder has made an operational jump he is entitled to wear them on the left breast, above any medal ribbons. The only pictorial evidence I have seen of this is various Hereford hooligans, some of who, had them on the left breast even on DPM combat jackets. Any readers shed any light on any of this?
ps maybe WO Isherwood is reading all this and may care to post a definitive answer?
ps maybe WO Isherwood is reading all this and may care to post a definitive answer?
Last edited by alwayslookingup; 12th May 2012 at 16:50.
From another sad forum
The gist of Army Council Instruction (ACI) 1589 28 Dec 1940:
- The regular parachute qualification badge was awarded after a specified number of jumps.
- That number seems to have been four, having been reduced from an initial proposal of six. (I imagine that this was increased during the war because of the introduction of kitbags and valises plus the night jump; Sims - Arnhem Spearhead - quotes eight jumps to qualify.
- The badge was worn on the right arm midway between shoulder and elbow (see below)
- Qualified personnel could wear the badge in perpetuity unless they had refused a jump in which case it could be withdrawn.
ACI 1274 17 Jun 1942 primarily revised the position of the badge to 2" below the shoulder seam - the original position led to the wings being worn in front of stripes.
The only personnel authorised to wear regular para wings on the breast were SOE agents who had made an operational jump.
Those were the rules (according to Davis - British Army Uniforms and Equipment of World War Two) that's not to say they were always followed. I can't comment on the practices in India.
SAS wings were not formally approved by the Army Council until 1948 when the SAS were reformed; before that they had only been approved locally. That allowed the SAS - not regular paras - to do their own thing with the badge moving from arm to breast after 3 operational jumps. Off the top of my head, Frost made four operational jumps: Bruneval, Oudna, Sicily and Arnhem - where did he wear his wings? After the war and the disbandment of the SAS, the War Office prohibited the wearing of SAS wings on the breast, that position being the preserve of [glider] pilots' wings.
- The regular parachute qualification badge was awarded after a specified number of jumps.
- That number seems to have been four, having been reduced from an initial proposal of six. (I imagine that this was increased during the war because of the introduction of kitbags and valises plus the night jump; Sims - Arnhem Spearhead - quotes eight jumps to qualify.
- The badge was worn on the right arm midway between shoulder and elbow (see below)
- Qualified personnel could wear the badge in perpetuity unless they had refused a jump in which case it could be withdrawn.
ACI 1274 17 Jun 1942 primarily revised the position of the badge to 2" below the shoulder seam - the original position led to the wings being worn in front of stripes.
The only personnel authorised to wear regular para wings on the breast were SOE agents who had made an operational jump.
Those were the rules (according to Davis - British Army Uniforms and Equipment of World War Two) that's not to say they were always followed. I can't comment on the practices in India.
SAS wings were not formally approved by the Army Council until 1948 when the SAS were reformed; before that they had only been approved locally. That allowed the SAS - not regular paras - to do their own thing with the badge moving from arm to breast after 3 operational jumps. Off the top of my head, Frost made four operational jumps: Bruneval, Oudna, Sicily and Arnhem - where did he wear his wings? After the war and the disbandment of the SAS, the War Office prohibited the wearing of SAS wings on the breast, that position being the preserve of [glider] pilots' wings.
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The half wing is clearly described here: RAF Flying Badges_U .