RAF Para Wing observation

[Extg3]

Are my eyes deceiving me or does that uniform have Wing Commanders stripes and SAC props on the sleeves?

[taxydual]

Yes, but it does have a button missing. So it's not legit....................

[Airborne Aircrew]

Surely, this is the ultimate Walter Mitty uniform...check this out!

Actually, after the war that jacket would have been perfectly reasonable since many surplus pilots chose to stay in the RAF and remustered to the Regiment.

The major failure of the jacket though is the Wingco rank along with the SAC rank...

[Roger the cabin boy]

I think there has been some form of recent change to various badge regs that allows PJIs (and former PJIs) who have served with 5 AB or 16 AA to wear the para wings as well as the brevet. My former OC PMS (ex-PJI) turned up one day with new wings on his arm and tried to explain it. Something akin to the previously mentioned difference between serving with an Airborne unit or not.

Or he might have been BS'ing me.

[Airborne Aircrew]

I might be being a snob but if you haven't passed Pre-Para or P-Coy then you can't wear wings... As to a PTI/PJI having no problem passing Pre-Para... You might be right, (it's easy to run alongside a man carrying 50 lbs and a rifle in boots though), but let's see the same people pass Pre-pre Para - it's a different animal altogether.

PJI's wearing wings is just another manifestation of their fixation with mirrors...

[parabellum]

I was under the impression you had to complete an "arduous" prep course (P Coy, SFC Selection, AACC) AND serve with an airborne unit to get the wings. I imagine a PTI would have no problem completing the arduous bit, but where's the opportunity?

Is it possible he was on the posted strength of an Airborne unit, as Roger the Cabin Boy suggests, if so he would have been expected to go with them in action and jump accordingly? Alternatively he may have been a member of an airborne element of the RAF Police? (If there ever was one?).

Reference Airborne Aircrews remarks, an old Para once told me that Pre-Pre Para as conducted by units like 9Sqn RE etc. and 'P' Company earned the red beret and the jumps earned the wings.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Parabellum:

When I was on II Sqn. we had cooks, suppliers, radio techs, MT mechs and pencil pushers that wore wings... Every one of them that wore their wings went through Pre-Para and then did their 8 at Brize... Every one of them I served with earned them and I'd be happy to fight alongside them any day...

We also had other tradesmen, (often in the same trades as those mentioned above), that were posted to II despite their protest that they didn't want to jump. Some of them earned their respect amongst the lads, others didn't.... They all remained wingless....

There was also a Rock that was posted to II when I was there... He stood in front of the entire squadron and said, bluntly, he wasn't para qualified and he wasn't fg interested. I'd still follow Warrant Officer Alec King to the end of the world and am quite confident that, had we ever had to have jumped in anger, Alec would have jumped with us without ever having been trained... There are just some men that you implicitly know will do what it takes to get their men where they need to be... with the absolute intent of bringing them out alive. Alec is that kind of man.



But yes, everything that came before No. 1 PTS made you Airborne... No. 1 PTS simply confirmed or denied it...

I've been very proud of many achievements in my life but becoming Airborne is hard to beat. Truly, hard to beat.

[Mr. Rotorvator]

PTI Badge

From the link in post 5:

0736. Physical Training Instructors badge. The badge, worn by qualified physical training instructors below the rank of WO, depicts
crossed swords with an eagle superimposed, surmounted by a crown. It is to be worn on the right jacket sleeve of No 1 SD (male and female
personnel) and No 6 SD with the top edge of the background ½" (1.3 cm) below the point of the chevron. A white background version is
provided for the PTI Jacket and vest.

I'm not too sure that WO Isherwood should be wearing the PTI badge on his No.1s.

[Lima Juliet]

The info on PJI qual badges is here Royal Air Force - Parachute Jump Instructor

In short, they originally wore an insignia on their sleeve, but by 1945 this had turned into a Brevet as they had also been doing the aircrew "air dispatcher" role.

Not so sure they do this these days though as an WSOp(ALM) is carried to do this, so maybe they should go back to the original sleeve insignia with more history behind it?

LJ

[chopper2004]

WHen I was in the UOTC, the RA Wing PSI wore two sets of jump wings, one of which was the Paras as he was P Co trained and he another silver looking emblem which looked suspiciously close to US jump wings. He said they were they were Dutch ones.

Slightly digressing here, but I've seen the then 55th SOS brought their MH-60G to Mildenhall for the 98 Air Fete for the first time. The aircraft commander wore two sets of wings on his brevet patch, one of which was the silver USAF and USN gold wings. Turned out he entered the Navy, flew for a few years on the SH-60B and then transferred to the USAF.

Funnily enough I have come across RAF SH pilots that had transferred either from the AAC or FAA, but they don't appear to wear both sets of wings they've achieved on their flight suits? I am assuming its the regs that says that.

[Trim Stab]

WHen I was in the UOTC, the RA Wing PSI wore two sets of jump wings, one of which was the Paras as he was P Co trained and he another silver looking emblem which looked suspiciously close to US jump wings. He said they were they were Dutch ones.

It used to be customary to hand out host jump wings to qualified personnel from other NATO countries on airborne joint excercises. Usually the requirement was to make two jumps with the host - often this would be the aircraft jump at the start of the excercise, then often they would put up a balloon as part of the endex-hangover recovery day to get in the other. I ended up with wings from four other NATO countries.

It was not considered good form to wear any of them though, but things might have changed.

[Al R]

Warrant Officer Alec King

He would walk around the sqn, pointing out jobs with stabs of his pace stick and the 2ic and Adj would follow in his wake, frantically scribbling notes.

[Al R]

Trim stab,

You could buy your jumps course from Belgium at one point as I recall. Not the best design - like ours but much bigger and worn on the front of your jersey.

[Trim Stab]

You could buy your jumps course from Belgium at one point as I recall. Not the best design - like ours but much bigger and worn on the front of your jersey.

Yep, go a set. Didn't buy them though - did the qualifying jumps and the last one with a massive hangover after a night out in Flawinne.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Whilst pre-para (for RAF Regt) and P-Coy (for Army) are requirements put in place by those organisations for attending the parachute course at BZN it has never been a requirement of the course itself. A certain level of fitness is expected and units that sent folk more suited to MSP delivery would be looked upon in a negative light but there are a few units out there (such a TSW, TCW and a few other mainly RAF units) that have a scaling for jump courses and funded slots due to a theoretical war role.

The wearing of the 'lightbulb' is linked to the funding behind your acceptance onto the jump course. If you are attending to qualify to fill a funded establishment slot (parachute pay payable) then the full wings are the correct qualification badge and this can be retained on leaving the role for which it was awarded. If though an individual attends the jump course as an unfunded attendee with no established parachute role in current post then the 'lightbulb' is the correct badge to be worn. If subsequently though the individual moves to an established parachute role then the 'lightbulb' should be replaced by the full wings.

To sum up, the type of badge initially awarded is based purely on whether the individual is in a funded parachute role. Subsequently the 'lightbulb' can be upgraded if individual moves to a qualifying role but the full wings are always retained once awarded.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Subsequently the 'lightbulb' can be upgraded if individual moves to a qualifying role but the full wings are always retained once awarded.

Such an individual would find it very hard to get respect on II Sqn, anywhere in the Parachute Regiment or any other fighting unit.

[El_Presidente]

Airborne Aircrew Quote:
Subsequently the 'lightbulb' can be upgraded if individual moves to a qualifying role but the full wings are always retained once awarded.
Such an individual would find it very hard to get respect on II Sqn, anywhere in the Parachute Regiment or any other fighting unit.

Yarp...however, the TSW chap who, in 2001 became one of the first members of the UK Armed Forces to get 'boots wet' whilst parachuting into Afghanistan, alongside a load of blades, in order to set up a FARP to support yank egg beaters - well he gets my thumbs up...

The sooner we loose our infatuation with willy waving (I'm more important than you) the better...morale is low enough as it is without the addition of unchecked ego...

[Corporal Clott]

Do the dogs get wings as well?

[Trim Stab]

You are a clott too. Learn to resize photos before you post. We don't all have screens six feet wide.

[Corporal Clott]

We don't all have screens six feet wide.

You should've worked harder at school then Trim Stab...