Civil servant in uniform
With an RAFR commission you will have seniority commensurate with your rank, but junior to all regular officers of the same rank.
LJ
Gentleman Aviator
In fact all VR(T) officers are substantive Flying Officers, as used to be apparent from the Air Force List - when we had one! 
All ranks above that - up to Wg Cdr maximum I think - are acting; either paid or unpaid as circumstances dictate.
All ranks above that - up to Wg Cdr maximum I think - are acting; either paid or unpaid as circumstances dictate.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Leon, no, it may have changed but I stand by what I said. I agree that VR(T) are also below RAF. What I stated was with reference to QRs when the matter arose.
Our 1st RO was a flt lt and 2RO a sqn ldr. If what you had said had been true then we would have been senior to our 2RO
As usual there was a fudge and we were reported on as C2 CS which, as far as the appraisal form was concerned, was not unreasonable. Naturally the 1st RO called us Sir
Our 1st RO was a flt lt and 2RO a sqn ldr. If what you had said had been true then we would have been senior to our 2RO
As usual there was a fudge and we were reported on as C2 CS which, as far as the appraisal form was concerned, was not unreasonable. Naturally the 1st RO called us Sir
Pontius
Here is the answer...
So ex-regular FTRS recalled under RFA 80 or 96 retain full seniority even though they are de facto RAFR. 
LJ
Here is the answer...
Andrew Robathan (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans), Defence; South Leicestershire, Conservative)
Former RAF personnel recalled to the service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 and 1996 become regular members of the RAF for the duration of the recall and receive pay relative to their rank and seniority. Members of the volunteer reserves, comprising the Royal Air Force Reserve (RAFR) and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force (RAuxAF), receive attendance pay for the occasions they attend training, based on rank and experience.
Former RAF personnel recalled to the service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 and 1996 become regular members of the RAF for the duration of the recall and receive pay relative to their rank and seniority. Members of the volunteer reserves, comprising the Royal Air Force Reserve (RAFR) and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force (RAuxAF), receive attendance pay for the occasions they attend training, based on rank and experience.
LJ
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Leon, ty, as usual there are exceptions.
I was commissioned in the RAFR but was paid as a civil servant. Robathan was only partly correct. Most RAFR/VR etc got the Jubilee medal. We didn't, sore point.
I was commissioned in the RAFR but was paid as a civil servant. Robathan was only partly correct. Most RAFR/VR etc got the Jubilee medal. We didn't, sore point.
The Met. situation was very complicated ...... my knowledge in depth ends at 1996.
There were three strata:
most forecasters in BFG were required to accept the possibility of CC RAFVR commissioning in event major war, auth. only by HMG, commissioning docs raised but not dated, uniforms held in store and not issued, sometimes fitted. All required to do annual NBC training but little else. Paid as CS grade, liable to Air Force Law. Highest rank in BFG one of Gp Capt. This held by C Met O BFG.
C Met O SHAPE was commissioned and wore uniform on a daily basis as the Met. Adviser to the head honcho: this post held for many years by a Brit, on a quota system. Paid as a CS at Principal level.
Finally a cadre of forecasters [and latterly observers] as members of the Mobile Met Unit within TAC Comms Wing [I recall] who served as civilians on their home base but were called forward for deployment as required. Uniformed, armed, usual powers of command, initially not coursed at Cranwell but by 1995 required to jump through same hoops as Docs and Padres. Falklands, Gulf, Balkans, Iraq, Afghan. etc. Head of unit a Wing Commander. Line manager C Met O STC as was. Some members rotund.
I am still in touch with some MMU members so could fill gaps of knowledge if demand existed.
There were three strata:
most forecasters in BFG were required to accept the possibility of CC RAFVR commissioning in event major war, auth. only by HMG, commissioning docs raised but not dated, uniforms held in store and not issued, sometimes fitted. All required to do annual NBC training but little else. Paid as CS grade, liable to Air Force Law. Highest rank in BFG one of Gp Capt. This held by C Met O BFG.
C Met O SHAPE was commissioned and wore uniform on a daily basis as the Met. Adviser to the head honcho: this post held for many years by a Brit, on a quota system. Paid as a CS at Principal level.
Finally a cadre of forecasters [and latterly observers] as members of the Mobile Met Unit within TAC Comms Wing [I recall] who served as civilians on their home base but were called forward for deployment as required. Uniformed, armed, usual powers of command, initially not coursed at Cranwell but by 1995 required to jump through same hoops as Docs and Padres. Falklands, Gulf, Balkans, Iraq, Afghan. etc. Head of unit a Wing Commander. Line manager C Met O STC as was. Some members rotund.
I am still in touch with some MMU members so could fill gaps of knowledge if demand existed.
MMU
The MMU has been around in some form or other since the Second World War. However, it stood up as a Formed Unit in its own right in the mid 1960s. As Langley and others have said, its members were and are volunteers from the Met Office (forecasters, Observers and Engineers.) This was separate from the old RAF(CC) of the RAFG staff, and MMU were enlisted or commissioned into the RAFVR. MMU members make up only a relatively small percentage of Met Office forecasters, observers of engineers.
Initially it was assumed all had previous regular or National Service, so basic training was limited, if any!
MMU was mainly engaged in support of exercises until Op Corporate. Since then, MMU have been involved in all the major conflicts, as well as supporting a heavy exercise commitment.
With the demise of the RAFVR, HQ Air Command did not think MMU fitted the RAuxAF model (other RAFVR units became RAuxAF Sqns.) Therefore MMU became the trial for the new Sponsored Reserve concept, and so became the only formed Unit in the RAFR.
Basic training also changed. Other ranks followed the same basic training as RAuxAF airman, often at a RAuxAF Sqn. Officers did ROIT, but changed to having to pass SERE about 7 years ago, given the high operational tempo, and that on deployments, they are often in command of regular service personnel of all services.
Continuation training is the usual requirements of CCS, fitness, IPDT, J/I/AMLC at ACS Halton or Staff College at Shrivenham.
Day to day they work as civilians across the Met Office, but are called out under RFA(96) to serve in uniform as and when required.
AP3392 Vol 7 is your guide to the rules and regs.
Initially it was assumed all had previous regular or National Service, so basic training was limited, if any!
MMU was mainly engaged in support of exercises until Op Corporate. Since then, MMU have been involved in all the major conflicts, as well as supporting a heavy exercise commitment.
With the demise of the RAFVR, HQ Air Command did not think MMU fitted the RAuxAF model (other RAFVR units became RAuxAF Sqns.) Therefore MMU became the trial for the new Sponsored Reserve concept, and so became the only formed Unit in the RAFR.
Basic training also changed. Other ranks followed the same basic training as RAuxAF airman, often at a RAuxAF Sqn. Officers did ROIT, but changed to having to pass SERE about 7 years ago, given the high operational tempo, and that on deployments, they are often in command of regular service personnel of all services.
Continuation training is the usual requirements of CCS, fitness, IPDT, J/I/AMLC at ACS Halton or Staff College at Shrivenham.
Day to day they work as civilians across the Met Office, but are called out under RFA(96) to serve in uniform as and when required.
AP3392 Vol 7 is your guide to the rules and regs.
Thank you, very informative. Just one perceived error:
my [never activated, thankfully] appointment to commission typed in 1989 for my role at JHQ as CMetOBFG was definitely RAFVR. I have it in front of me.
my [never activated, thankfully] appointment to commission typed in 1989 for my role at JHQ as CMetOBFG was definitely RAFVR. I have it in front of me.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LB, I think you will see that is exactly what Snoopy said. Air Command is a very new construct.
PN:
Not as I read it:
This was separate from the old RAF(CC) of the RAFG staff,
My point is it was not RAF[CC] for me in c. 1989., and I was definitely RAFG staff.
It was, however, CC in c. 1978, when my earlier piece of paper says SLdr CC. This was as a senior forecaster at JHQ.
It is only a minor detail, but as my father was RAFVR I rather like the idea that I nearly was, subject only to World War III happening on my watch.
Not as I read it:
This was separate from the old RAF(CC) of the RAFG staff,
My point is it was not RAF[CC] for me in c. 1989., and I was definitely RAFG staff.
It was, however, CC in c. 1978, when my earlier piece of paper says SLdr CC. This was as a senior forecaster at JHQ.
It is only a minor detail, but as my father was RAFVR I rather like the idea that I nearly was, subject only to World War III happening on my watch.
