FAFPS 2015
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I have a similar question. I am on AFPS 75.
I hit my 16 yr point in 2017 so I am guessing that I will get 14/16s of my pension and lump sum. The question I have is, will you still be able to commute to increase your lump sum.
Fingers crossed it gets delayed! Every year would help us all.
I hit my 16 yr point in 2017 so I am guessing that I will get 14/16s of my pension and lump sum. The question I have is, will you still be able to commute to increase your lump sum.
Fingers crossed it gets delayed! Every year would help us all.
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Seriously?
BBC News - Pension reforms for military outlined by MoD
If this happens, I am gone. I think I was pretty happy to serve to 55 with a good pension, so I could do some nice chillaxing when I left, however giving another 5 years of (literally) blood, sweat and tears is going to push me over the edge. Yes, it is still better than other pensions, but no other organisations asks so much of its people........
I just miss out on the 10 years to go bit (aged 45) by a few months too...utter, utter bollox. I have had enough. Time to say ta ta, and they could have had another few years out of me too.
BBC News - Pension reforms for military outlined by MoD
If this happens, I am gone. I think I was pretty happy to serve to 55 with a good pension, so I could do some nice chillaxing when I left, however giving another 5 years of (literally) blood, sweat and tears is going to push me over the edge. Yes, it is still better than other pensions, but no other organisations asks so much of its people........
I just miss out on the 10 years to go bit (aged 45) by a few months too...utter, utter bollox. I have had enough. Time to say ta ta, and they could have had another few years out of me too.
It's a little unclear for FTRS as it states that FAFPS will only pay out at or after the proposed 20/20 point. With some FTRS taking contracts at age 40 or above, does that mean working to a 20 year point or wait until age 65 when most FTRS retire age 60?!
If it is as before, where RFPS05 paid 1/70th of final pensionable salary and FAFPS pays 1/47th of final pensionable salary, then I am very much "quids in" and my pension at 60 for my FTRS time will be £16k under FAFPS whereas under RFPS05 it would be £10.7k!
Any pointers into how I have interpretted it, gratefully recieved!
LJ
If it is as before, where RFPS05 paid 1/70th of final pensionable salary and FAFPS pays 1/47th of final pensionable salary, then I am very much "quids in" and my pension at 60 for my FTRS time will be £16k under FAFPS whereas under RFPS05 it would be £10.7k!
Any pointers into how I have interpretted it, gratefully recieved!
LJ
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Also posted in the other thread, but reposted here in hope of answers...:
So can anyone answer a quick question-if you leave after 2015 but you are not within 10 years of Full pension, ie over 44 last march, do we now have to serve until 40 to get a lump sum, pension from the end of our commission. I'm on AFPS 75 and plan to leave at 38/16 point-where do I, and thousands like me, stand? Its pretty clear what the case is for new-joiners and near-retirees but, as ever, the middle ground is left in a quagmire....This may have massive implications for people of my age approaching their 12 year option right now...
So can anyone answer a quick question-if you leave after 2015 but you are not within 10 years of Full pension, ie over 44 last march, do we now have to serve until 40 to get a lump sum, pension from the end of our commission. I'm on AFPS 75 and plan to leave at 38/16 point-where do I, and thousands like me, stand? Its pretty clear what the case is for new-joiners and near-retirees but, as ever, the middle ground is left in a quagmire....This may have massive implications for people of my age approaching their 12 year option right now...
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FJ2ME,
I stand to be corrected by AL R, but i believe this to be the case (yours is similar to mine).
If you leave after April 2015, due to the statement on accrued rights, you will recieve X/16ths of your pension + a lump sum of 3-times this (where X is your number of years on AFPS 75) immediately. Any benefits earnt under the new scheme will be paid from State retirement age (most likely 68 for you and I) if you don't serve until age 55. If you did make it to age 55, you would recieve these benefits at age 60. I think thats about it.
I stand to be corrected by AL R, but i believe this to be the case (yours is similar to mine).
If you leave after April 2015, due to the statement on accrued rights, you will recieve X/16ths of your pension + a lump sum of 3-times this (where X is your number of years on AFPS 75) immediately. Any benefits earnt under the new scheme will be paid from State retirement age (most likely 68 for you and I) if you don't serve until age 55. If you did make it to age 55, you would recieve these benefits at age 60. I think thats about it.
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If you want to tell me when you joined, what rank you are and when you'd be expected to leave etc, I'll try and let you know. I'm at Bze tomorrow so if you want to e-mail or PM me, I'll get back to you if you like.
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If someone (Al I'm looking at you 
) can answer this I would appreciate it.
If I were to go onto PAS then (ignoring the year or so until 1 Apr 15) what is the "pensionable pay" used to calculate my pension? Is it some rank equivalent thing or will it be my actual PAS pay spine pay?
Thanks
) can answer this I would appreciate it.If I were to go onto PAS then (ignoring the year or so until 1 Apr 15) what is the "pensionable pay" used to calculate my pension? Is it some rank equivalent thing or will it be my actual PAS pay spine pay?
Thanks
FJ2ME,
I think I'm probably in a similar boat to you i.e. the middle ground straddling both schemes. And you're not the only one currently scratching their head. I think - hope - a new calculator will come out in September when they make the final announcement.
However, from what I can gather, the following seems to apply if you reach your 16/38 point before the new scheme kicks in:
2014: Melchett reaches 16/38 point, qualifies for IP + lump sum (AFPS 75)
2015: Transfer to new scheme. All previous benefits earned to date remain payable as normal
2020: Melchett pulls yellow and black, leaving after 22 years service. Draws an IP + lump sum for service up to 2015 under AFPS 75 plus an EDP for service between 2015 - 2020 under new scheme.
2040: Melchett stunned to have made retirement age. All previous payments now uprated in line with CPI and residual element of the new pension scheme earned between 2015-2020 is paid out.
I think that's it as I understand, unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick - which wouldn't be the first time. That said, there's a little gremlin working away at the back of my mind that says I might even be better off at retirement by transfering to the new scheme than had I remained on the 75 scheme because of the higher accrual rates coupled with the fact that as far as the new career average scheme is concerned, my starting salary will be based on what I am earning at the time of transition and then going forward rather than what I was earning as a Plt Off going through Cranwell in the 90s.
Whether my patience lasts long enough to accrue a full pension is, however, a very different matter.
I think I'm probably in a similar boat to you i.e. the middle ground straddling both schemes. And you're not the only one currently scratching their head. I think - hope - a new calculator will come out in September when they make the final announcement.
However, from what I can gather, the following seems to apply if you reach your 16/38 point before the new scheme kicks in:
2014: Melchett reaches 16/38 point, qualifies for IP + lump sum (AFPS 75)
2015: Transfer to new scheme. All previous benefits earned to date remain payable as normal
2020: Melchett pulls yellow and black, leaving after 22 years service. Draws an IP + lump sum for service up to 2015 under AFPS 75 plus an EDP for service between 2015 - 2020 under new scheme.
2040: Melchett stunned to have made retirement age. All previous payments now uprated in line with CPI and residual element of the new pension scheme earned between 2015-2020 is paid out.
I think that's it as I understand, unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick - which wouldn't be the first time. That said, there's a little gremlin working away at the back of my mind that says I might even be better off at retirement by transfering to the new scheme than had I remained on the 75 scheme because of the higher accrual rates coupled with the fact that as far as the new career average scheme is concerned, my starting salary will be based on what I am earning at the time of transition and then going forward rather than what I was earning as a Plt Off going through Cranwell in the 90s.
Whether my patience lasts long enough to accrue a full pension is, however, a very different matter.
Last edited by Melchett01; 31st Jul 2012 at 20:47.
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PLT,
Are you on 75 or 05?
On the surface of it (slopy shoulders), it is your PAS salary (as those on PAS no longer receive flying pay, all your salary counts towards the pension). However, PAS rules may also apply, such as completing a minimum of 5 years to qualify for the enhanced pension - and I believe that you qualify for the "extra" pension after you have served the 5 years. If though, you left before the 5 year period had elapsed you got the standard pension for your rank (did that get revoked on Appeal?).
To my mind, even if you ended up leaving, isn't it in your interest to strongly consider the PA offer now anyway? If you were to PVR on day 1 of FAFPS you would not lose any flying pay and you would not suffer a reduced PVR rate pension on any pre FAFPS pension because you didn’t PVR from it. On the surface of it, with the accrual rates being announced and because the EDP/Gratuity hasn’t been changed to the point that it will adversely affect most people attracted to PAS anyway, why not give it some serious consideration..?
Are you on 75 or 05?
On the surface of it (slopy shoulders), it is your PAS salary (as those on PAS no longer receive flying pay, all your salary counts towards the pension). However, PAS rules may also apply, such as completing a minimum of 5 years to qualify for the enhanced pension - and I believe that you qualify for the "extra" pension after you have served the 5 years. If though, you left before the 5 year period had elapsed you got the standard pension for your rank (did that get revoked on Appeal?).
To my mind, even if you ended up leaving, isn't it in your interest to strongly consider the PA offer now anyway? If you were to PVR on day 1 of FAFPS you would not lose any flying pay and you would not suffer a reduced PVR rate pension on any pre FAFPS pension because you didn’t PVR from it. On the surface of it, with the accrual rates being announced and because the EDP/Gratuity hasn’t been changed to the point that it will adversely affect most people attracted to PAS anyway, why not give it some serious consideration..?
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Melchett,
Not quite the same boat I'm afraid, I reach my 38/16 point in 2019. What concerns me most at this point is whether I will now have to serve until 40/20 to get an immediate pension and lump sum at all. If the answer is yes, then that will be an instant decision to take my option at 12 year point, 2015, because there is literally no point in staying.. Ridiculous.
Not quite the same boat I'm afraid, I reach my 38/16 point in 2019. What concerns me most at this point is whether I will now have to serve until 40/20 to get an immediate pension and lump sum at all. If the answer is yes, then that will be an instant decision to take my option at 12 year point, 2015, because there is literally no point in staying.. Ridiculous.
I will definitely need this clarifying by someone soon!
On 75, leaving March 2017 at 38 point. Is it definite that I would get a lump sum, ( albeit it missing out on last couple of years)
The way it could be read is that I have to serve to 20 years and age 40.
Oh how confusing, At least it doesn't affect our future. Oh.
On 75, leaving March 2017 at 38 point. Is it definite that I would get a lump sum, ( albeit it missing out on last couple of years)
The way it could be read is that I have to serve to 20 years and age 40.
Oh how confusing, At least it doesn't affect our future. Oh.
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Al
Thanks for the reply.
I'm actually on 75 but isn't that irrelevant to what I will get post 2015?
So if, for example, I am 42 on 1 Apr 15 and serve until 60 (1 Apr 33), have accepted PAS before then and nothing else changes (such as promotion
) I will get 18/47 of my average salary between those 2 dates (which won't change that much, just a few PAS levels).
Sounds too good to be true.
Thanks for the reply.
I'm actually on 75 but isn't that irrelevant to what I will get post 2015?
So if, for example, I am 42 on 1 Apr 15 and serve until 60 (1 Apr 33), have accepted PAS before then and nothing else changes (such as promotion
) I will get 18/47 of my average salary between those 2 dates (which won't change that much, just a few PAS levels).Sounds too good to be true.
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Backwards,
I asked because my brain was struggling about the 5 year payback rule. Its a bit late. Don't take this the wrong way (I know you won't), but through luck and not judgment, by getting a nice salaried increase and then levelling out, you conform to the profile of the type to benefit most because the new scheme has no built in memory - it doesn't know what you did before 2015.
One of the charges levelled against these schemes is that they flatten out career profiles and dull a member's aspirations (Unions love 'em). In other words, they don't incentivise the chargers as 75 and 05 did and those who want to charge a bit more towards the end of a career may as well not bother if they are motivated by the money. Instead, they encourage mediocrity and tend to lump more people in a more tightly defined profile (actuaries and trustees like the greater sense of certainty).
In 75 and 05, members whose salary rise fastest get a better bang per buck from the scheme than those whose salary rises at a slower rate. In FAFPS, all members may get a pension which is thought to be fairer as it better reflects the earnings and contributions throughout the members’ careers. Either way, take proper advice that you trust before you do anything drastic!
I asked because my brain was struggling about the 5 year payback rule. Its a bit late. Don't take this the wrong way (I know you won't), but through luck and not judgment, by getting a nice salaried increase and then levelling out, you conform to the profile of the type to benefit most because the new scheme has no built in memory - it doesn't know what you did before 2015.
One of the charges levelled against these schemes is that they flatten out career profiles and dull a member's aspirations (Unions love 'em). In other words, they don't incentivise the chargers as 75 and 05 did and those who want to charge a bit more towards the end of a career may as well not bother if they are motivated by the money. Instead, they encourage mediocrity and tend to lump more people in a more tightly defined profile (actuaries and trustees like the greater sense of certainty).
In 75 and 05, members whose salary rise fastest get a better bang per buck from the scheme than those whose salary rises at a slower rate. In FAFPS, all members may get a pension which is thought to be fairer as it better reflects the earnings and contributions throughout the members’ careers. Either way, take proper advice that you trust before you do anything drastic!
Antelope
Those are my exact worries. I certainly would not choose to extend at all and would presume I get my 'accrued rights' at age 38, 2017.
That said, until it is confirmed, I shall be worrying a touch.
Those are my exact worries. I certainly would not choose to extend at all and would presume I get my 'accrued rights' at age 38, 2017.
That said, until it is confirmed, I shall be worrying a touch.
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Backwards,
As well as getting 18 yrs worth of Career Average, don't forget that the value of each year's contributions will be revalued by an average earnings index so you will also benefit from the effect of compounding and annual pay rises when they come back into play. Add your accrued benefits from AFPS 05 or 75 and you may have as good a pension as before, if not better.
With regards qualification for accrued rights under AFPS 75 or 05, all previous briefings/DINs etc remain extant. Therefore, if you were on a 38/16 or 40/18 engagement that finishes after 1 Apr 15, then so long as you complete that engagement you will be able to access those benefits (pension/EDP/lump sum) accrued up to the introduction of FAFPS at the same time you would have expected to receive them previously.
With regards the impact on high flyers, this will be something that the AFPRB, SSRB and NEM will have to look at to ensure remuneration packages remain competitive once the lower value of a Career Average pension is taken into account. There may be resultant pay increases at some levels so that people are paid better for doing the actual job, but unlike a final salary scheme under Career Average the State would not end up paying them a very generous pension for the next 30 years based on what could have been a relatively short period of their overall career.
As well as getting 18 yrs worth of Career Average, don't forget that the value of each year's contributions will be revalued by an average earnings index so you will also benefit from the effect of compounding and annual pay rises when they come back into play. Add your accrued benefits from AFPS 05 or 75 and you may have as good a pension as before, if not better.
With regards qualification for accrued rights under AFPS 75 or 05, all previous briefings/DINs etc remain extant. Therefore, if you were on a 38/16 or 40/18 engagement that finishes after 1 Apr 15, then so long as you complete that engagement you will be able to access those benefits (pension/EDP/lump sum) accrued up to the introduction of FAFPS at the same time you would have expected to receive them previously.
With regards the impact on high flyers, this will be something that the AFPRB, SSRB and NEM will have to look at to ensure remuneration packages remain competitive once the lower value of a Career Average pension is taken into account. There may be resultant pay increases at some levels so that people are paid better for doing the actual job, but unlike a final salary scheme under Career Average the State would not end up paying them a very generous pension for the next 30 years based on what could have been a relatively short period of their overall career.
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CM,
You will get 13/16 accrued AFPS 75 benefits when you leave. You will then get 3/16 accrued FAFPS benefits at state pension age (68 for you?). This, I think, is the problem for many people.. there is a gap which has to be filled.
The examples don't cover anyone in your particular situation - which ios frustrating. Although they can't cover everyone, I am sure that there are many more officers and SNCOs who will be in your position.
Calculating your State Pension age : Directgov - Pensions and retirement planning
You will get 13/16 accrued AFPS 75 benefits when you leave. You will then get 3/16 accrued FAFPS benefits at state pension age (68 for you?). This, I think, is the problem for many people.. there is a gap which has to be filled.
The examples don't cover anyone in your particular situation - which ios frustrating. Although they can't cover everyone, I am sure that there are many more officers and SNCOs who will be in your position.
Calculating your State Pension age : Directgov - Pensions and retirement planning
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Ditto CharlieMike,
I'm on the 75 scheme, 16/38 point in 2016. I'm presuming (hoping) that I get 15/16th of my 75 scheme then, ie immediate pension and lump sum, and a year and a bit of the new scheme which I assume won't be anything immediate. Is that right?
I'm on the 75 scheme, 16/38 point in 2016. I'm presuming (hoping) that I get 15/16th of my 75 scheme then, ie immediate pension and lump sum, and a year and a bit of the new scheme which I assume won't be anything immediate. Is that right?
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As well as getting 18 yrs worth of Career Average, don't forget that the value of each year's contributions will be revalued by an average earnings index so you will also benefit from the effect of compounding and annual pay rises when they come back into play.
In fairness and in the interests of balance, AWE is assumed by many to be rise 1.5% above RPI (which is assumed to be 4.6% pa) and future CPI is assumed to be 3.6% pa, i.e. 1% lower than RPI (actual CPI September 2010 was 3.1% pa.). But given that public sector bonuses are taken into account when calculating AWE, can I now assume that we'll see a campaign to increase the amount of the average MoD civil servant bonus?!
There is much talk about the RPI/CPI revaluation of pensions in payment. This one though, is going to be the sleeper to keep an eye on.