Grammar. Spelling and Punctuation
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Thread Starter
Grammar. Spelling and Punctuation
It doesn't seem to take much these days for a thread to slide into a tangential willy-waving spectacle regarding the literary attributes of various contributors. There is definitely an old school and a new school approach to this - new school leans towards deciding whether or not you were able to successfully make a point; old school reminding everyone that first impressions are just that.
I found that early career shredding in front of an audience, where my seeming inability to use a dictionary or establish the correct definition of an acronym was rapidly and brutally corrected, have led me towards the old school. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing it right the first time. Clearly the dreaded hand held penis extensions, whereby you can type away with two thumbs in order to ask your significant other exactly what type of artisan milled, Tuscan granary loaf to buy from the supermarket have contributed to the decline of complete sentences, but it shouldn't prevent people from spelling their inane dribble correctly.
The e-petition thread was a classic example where a well intentioned idea ran the risk of being hijacked by the grammar police. But this was intended to be read by an MP somewhere, so first impressions always count with busy people, be it MP's or Staff officers. To get someone's attention you should be able to demonstrate you have at least applied yourself to the task in hand and using a dictionary or spellchecker should not be beyond the wit of man.
The confusion between brevity and shoddy work has been generated by the proliferation of electronic communication devices but it also speaks volumes for what passes for English teaching in schools these days. Old school and new school doesn't necessarily mean old farts versus young whipper-snappers, but it's a fair bet that those of us over 40 were at least taught the correct way to use the English language at some stage in our lives.
As a suggestion instead of excoriating those who choose not to be burdened down by grammar rules and vocabulary on the thread itself, you simply add it to the "wall of shame" here.
I found that early career shredding in front of an audience, where my seeming inability to use a dictionary or establish the correct definition of an acronym was rapidly and brutally corrected, have led me towards the old school. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing it right the first time. Clearly the dreaded hand held penis extensions, whereby you can type away with two thumbs in order to ask your significant other exactly what type of artisan milled, Tuscan granary loaf to buy from the supermarket have contributed to the decline of complete sentences, but it shouldn't prevent people from spelling their inane dribble correctly.
The e-petition thread was a classic example where a well intentioned idea ran the risk of being hijacked by the grammar police. But this was intended to be read by an MP somewhere, so first impressions always count with busy people, be it MP's or Staff officers. To get someone's attention you should be able to demonstrate you have at least applied yourself to the task in hand and using a dictionary or spellchecker should not be beyond the wit of man.
The confusion between brevity and shoddy work has been generated by the proliferation of electronic communication devices but it also speaks volumes for what passes for English teaching in schools these days. Old school and new school doesn't necessarily mean old farts versus young whipper-snappers, but it's a fair bet that those of us over 40 were at least taught the correct way to use the English language at some stage in our lives.
As a suggestion instead of excoriating those who choose not to be burdened down by grammar rules and vocabulary on the thread itself, you simply add it to the "wall of shame" here.
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Nothing personal, but "get a ****ing life" is the thought that springs to mind for those so bereft of joie de vivre that they feel it their mission in life to post and retort as if this forum were a grammar factory.
Well, no harm in it. Mind you, we all make typos sometimes. I do note that there is a split infinitive in the very first line of this thread 
.
There's nothing clever about bad grammar, nothing wrong with communicating properly. To maintain the relevance to flying, we're pretty particular with the way we use words on the RT. So why not here!
. There's nothing clever about bad grammar, nothing wrong with communicating properly. To maintain the relevance to flying, we're pretty particular with the way we use words on the RT. So why not here!
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But if the grammar Nazis had their way where would the joy in posting an alcohol-fueled rant be?
This isn't RT, and there's a great deal more wrong in the military, let alone the world, than a superfluous apostrophe* here and there.
*Honestly, I had not seen the previous post when I wrote that! The irony was delicious though.
This isn't RT, and there's a great deal more wrong in the military, let alone the world, than a superfluous apostrophe* here and there.
*Honestly, I had not seen the previous post when I wrote that! The irony was delicious though.
SPAG
- what sort of 'school' is that fer *** sake (with appostrofe) Infant's Entrance is either a mouth or ..........................
I live near a school where the first thing the children see each morning is
Infant's Entrance... I'm with Two's in. It's not that difficult, is it?
Infant's Entrance... I'm with Two's in. It's not that difficult, is it?
u gotta put de apostrofree in de rite place innit.....
oim from de eest end uv lundun innit...........
...orwuz dat sumfin' else place....
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Theres a diference bettween pore speling and laziness!
We all make typos, specially when typing fast, under stress, or in irritation. We all have words that we simply can't spell. I find double consonant usage confusing and always have to ponder over 'necessary', and 'embarrassed', for example. There are certain plural nouns where possessives become problematic, for example 'children' so that 'Children's Hospital' looks wrong but is correct.
Having worked in a multilingual environment for a long time, I also find that I see so much bad spelling and grammar that my brain fails to register the errors.
What really upsets me is to see people using 'text' abbreviations and lazy spellings on forum boards such as this one. If someone can't be bothered to attempt to express their question or opinion in a reasonably literate manner, then I feel it has little value.
We all make typos, specially when typing fast, under stress, or in irritation. We all have words that we simply can't spell. I find double consonant usage confusing and always have to ponder over 'necessary', and 'embarrassed', for example. There are certain plural nouns where possessives become problematic, for example 'children' so that 'Children's Hospital' looks wrong but is correct.
Having worked in a multilingual environment for a long time, I also find that I see so much bad spelling and grammar that my brain fails to register the errors.
What really upsets me is to see people using 'text' abbreviations and lazy spellings on forum boards such as this one. If someone can't be bothered to attempt to express their question or opinion in a reasonably literate manner, then I feel it has little value.
Although I admit I am a card-carrying pedant when it comes to written English, I think there is some merit to the wannabes finding out on here that they will need both attention to detail and a thick skin if they want to join the club...they won't get very far with applying to the RAF as aircrew if they submit an application form, or a written solution to an exercise at OASC, which contains basic spelling/grammatical errors.
What does make me chuckle is all the people in the RAF who think they are God's gift to written English just because they have completed ISS! Given that ISS (or TEWE these days) is a sub-standard package taught mostly by people who have a very superficial understanding of English, the written ramblings of ISS alumni are usually nothing short of comedic...not to mention their attempts to debrief others on use of colon vs semi-colon etc etc.
What does make me chuckle is all the people in the RAF who think they are God's gift to written English just because they have completed ISS! Given that ISS (or TEWE these days) is a sub-standard package taught mostly by people who have a very superficial understanding of English, the written ramblings of ISS alumni are usually nothing short of comedic...not to mention their attempts to debrief others on use of colon vs semi-colon etc etc.
I have spent 11 years teaching at Public Schools. Every report written on every child is read by the Headmaster/Headmistress, and another senior teacher, and every grammatical/spelling point comes back to the author for correction. I've also spent some time in a Command Headquarters doing a lot of proof-reading for a surprisingly reasonable AOC. These experiences have led me to the following conclusions.
Slightly sloppy common sense is replaced by anodyne perfection, and the parent learns a lot less about their child, as it's too much aggro to try to write perfectly presented common sense on difficult topics. I had the same impression of Service Writing.
It is impossible to please pedants, because there is no final authority. Split infinitives would be an example. Oxford dictionaries says it's OK, I asked an Oxford English professor who said it was OK, but 3 out of 4 Heads I worked for wouldn't accept it (despite their degrees being in History).
Is any allowance made by English experts for non-experts? Generally no, despite the sense being perfectly clear. Yet did those same English experts expect me (not just ask me) to fix their computer / projector / car / cat-flap (really) for them? You bet!
Thus* I operate the following procedure.
Is the sense unclear?
Is this important and open to misinterpretation (e.g. safety instructions)?
If the answer to both these questions is no, then let it pass - life's too short.
Feel free to form your own opinions about the writer, but the rest of us don't need to hear about it.
Essentially, anyone correcting unimportant stuff is pitiable, not authoritative.
*Sentence deliberately started with a co-ordinating conjunction, to prove another moot point.
Slightly sloppy common sense is replaced by anodyne perfection, and the parent learns a lot less about their child, as it's too much aggro to try to write perfectly presented common sense on difficult topics. I had the same impression of Service Writing.
It is impossible to please pedants, because there is no final authority. Split infinitives would be an example. Oxford dictionaries says it's OK, I asked an Oxford English professor who said it was OK, but 3 out of 4 Heads I worked for wouldn't accept it (despite their degrees being in History).
Is any allowance made by English experts for non-experts? Generally no, despite the sense being perfectly clear. Yet did those same English experts expect me (not just ask me) to fix their computer / projector / car / cat-flap (really) for them? You bet!
Thus* I operate the following procedure.
Is the sense unclear?
Is this important and open to misinterpretation (e.g. safety instructions)?
If the answer to both these questions is no, then let it pass - life's too short.
Feel free to form your own opinions about the writer, but the rest of us don't need to hear about it.
Essentially, anyone correcting unimportant stuff is pitiable, not authoritative.
*Sentence deliberately started with a co-ordinating conjunction, to prove another moot point.
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i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Ui nervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt
S4G
Fox I think you are essentially correct in what you say, but it is ironic that your opening sentence could cause confusion on an international forum. When you said you had taught in public schools, my immediate thought was "I wonder which ones" as I once taught at Marlborough. I then realised that as you live in Canada you probably meant what we over here would call state schools. Of course any fule no that in Britain a public school is in fact a private school!
Oh the joys of English!
Oh the joys of English!