'Falklands' Most Daring Raid'
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One possible aspect of the Black Buck raids may have been overlooked.
Prior to that time the Soviet Union had basically dismissed the UK armed forces in Europe and concentrated their effort to the US sector figuring that they could roll through the British sector without too much trouble.
The determination of the UK in retaking the Falkland Islands, the resolve of the British Government, and the ability and ingenuity in mounting the Black Buck raids and other operations caused the Soviets to rethink their strategy in Europe.
With everything else that was going on there (cruise missiles, star wars etc) it simply became a bridge too far to commit additional resources to counter the British sector as well. It was the fabled straw that broke the camels back.
And we all know where that little scenario ended up.
Prior to that time the Soviet Union had basically dismissed the UK armed forces in Europe and concentrated their effort to the US sector figuring that they could roll through the British sector without too much trouble.
The determination of the UK in retaking the Falkland Islands, the resolve of the British Government, and the ability and ingenuity in mounting the Black Buck raids and other operations caused the Soviets to rethink their strategy in Europe.
With everything else that was going on there (cruise missiles, star wars etc) it simply became a bridge too far to commit additional resources to counter the British sector as well. It was the fabled straw that broke the camels back.
And we all know where that little scenario ended up.
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I doubt it, the inter service rivalry now has to debate if it was "the resolve of the British Government, and the ability and ingenuity in mounting the Black Buck raids (RAF) and other operations (The Navy task force or Army land campaign) that caused the Soviets to rethink their strategy in Europe"
and ended communism !
and ended communism !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As the bomber force was becoming obsolete and finished by 1984 I think you can write the RAF as a new significant war-winning asset.
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It is abundantly clear. Whilst our American cousins wasted billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives fighting the expansion of communism; whilst the whole of NATO made an entire generation (not) fight a cold war lasting decades of professional tedium; whilst both sides in the pro/anti-communism camp waged war by proxy in countless states: The Royal Air Force, even now numbering in the tens of thousands, rid the world of the scourge, nay disgrace, of communism using one bomb, dropped on one small (unusable by fast jets
) runway, by one aircraft.
BZ, bravo and hurrah.
) runway, by one aircraft.BZ, bravo and hurrah.
Yes, you are right, the Soviets should rethinked their strategies in Europe after seeing a Third World country sunk 4 UK's warships plus 2 transport ships.
Again, the former URSS should be worried about the striking capability of the NATO after been unable to denied the use of the Malvinas aerodrome which was operable until the very end of the war.
Again, the former URSS should be worried about the striking capability of the NATO after been unable to denied the use of the Malvinas aerodrome which was operable until the very end of the war.
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Cosmic,
You have completely missed the point.
Not only could the RAF fly all the way to the third world, but it did so, and in so doing ended communism.
All this theory and counter theory about Argentine DCA being committed to the mainland, use of Stanley and extension of the runway is mere trivia. The RAF brought the USSR to its knees that night - and I'll duel with any man that says it didn't!
You have completely missed the point.
Not only could the RAF fly all the way to the third world, but it did so, and in so doing ended communism.
All this theory and counter theory about Argentine DCA being committed to the mainland, use of Stanley and extension of the runway is mere trivia. The RAF brought the USSR to its knees that night - and I'll duel with any man that says it didn't!
After the South Atlantic campaign had ended, was any further Vulcan AAR conducted?
When was the last occasion upon which a Vulcan operated in the receiver role?
When was the last occasion upon which a Vulcan operated in the receiver role?
Could be that the Commies just ran out of pennies before we did!!
P.S. back on topic, Thanks, Darvan for the information about the D/SEAD BB Missions and how the Vulcan was operated to get the Shrikes off the rails without a full emitter location system (which is something I should have thought of as I'm aware of some of the limitations of ARM's).
P.S. back on topic, Thanks, Darvan for the information about the D/SEAD BB Missions and how the Vulcan was operated to get the Shrikes off the rails without a full emitter location system (which is something I should have thought of as I'm aware of some of the limitations of ARM's).
Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 15th Apr 2012 at 02:29.
Ronnie Reagan's 1983 Strategic Defense Inititative and 'Evil Empire' speech kicked off the end of Communism.
Bugger all to do with the Malvinas war.
Bugger all to do with the Malvinas war.
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With everything else that was going on there (cruise missiles, star wars etc) it simply became a bridge too far to commit additional resources to counter the British sector as well. It was the fabled straw that broke the camels back.
But with respect, I rather think that the Bagnall reforms, taken on by Farndale, had rather more to do with worrying the Russians than Black Buck. the Soviets knew that the RAF was a capable - if underfunded and rather smaller than ideal - organisation, and while Black Buck might have taken them by surprise with the extent of its ambition and effects delivered (from all the sorties), it rather fitted in with their viewpoint.
BAOR, on the other hand, was given the job of dying bravely in a series of defensive actions which would, it appeared, precede the escalation to a nuclear exchange if the governments of the West were prepared to do this. Then, Bagnall changed the CONOPS and started talking about the counter-stroke, manoeuvrist approach, etc, etc, followed by Farndale, who syarted muttering about counter-attacks and the odd jest about marching on Moscow. The Sovs, via observers, spies and SOXMIS, came to the view that the bit up to marching on Moscow wasn't just bluster, and started to worry a bit more about the British sector than before. that's not to say that Black Buck didn't impress the Soviets, but if we're looking at a change in attitude towards the British sector, then Bagnall has to come in ahead of Black Buck as the overlooked but significant factor from the UK perspective.
BAOR, on the other hand, was given the job of dying bravely in a series of defensive actions which would, it appeared, precede the escalation to a nuclear exchange if the governments of the West were prepared to do this. Then, Bagnall changed the CONOPS and started talking about the counter-stroke, manoeuvrist approach, etc, etc, followed by Farndale, who syarted muttering about counter-attacks and the odd jest about marching on Moscow. The Sovs, via observers, spies and SOXMIS, came to the view that the bit up to marching on Moscow wasn't just bluster, and started to worry a bit more about the British sector than before. that's not to say that Black Buck didn't impress the Soviets, but if we're looking at a change in attitude towards the British sector, then Bagnall has to come in ahead of Black Buck as the overlooked but significant factor from the UK perspective.
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'twas Mathias Rust who proved that after spending 60 years and billions on the defence of the USSR they couldn't keep out a Cessna 172 - so what where their chances if the USAF or RAF came along
personally I was quite surprised the RAF wasn't completely re-equipped with C172's straight away - probably BAe offered them at $ 100 mm a go and a development time of 15 years..................
personally I was quite surprised the RAF wasn't completely re-equipped with C172's straight away - probably BAe offered them at $ 100 mm a go and a development time of 15 years..................