Traunche 3 by Stealth?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: The real world
There are a few ways of looking at it.
Firstly: a fitness test is a good way of assessing an individuals general health and fitness, along with regular medicals, if you don't have a pass mark whats the point in the test? quite reasonably the pass mark takes into account your age, if it's ok to account for age then why not sex?
If you make the pass level equal regardless of sex then you are not truly assessing the males! either that or you are penalising the females by making their levels comparatively higher than their male counterparts!
I am not really sure what the problem is?
The argument that one is fit enough to do their job isn't a sound one, I have seen some severely overweight airmen and women do their job perfectly adequately, are they a good example for the service, could they cope in a high tempo, high extreme climate on ops?
Might they cost the service money and time and later in life the NHS?
It's not new, nobody has just sprung it on you and the levels for both sexes are childlike so just get on with it! There are plenty worse hoops to jump through! If this is what really bothers people then perhaps they should leave and save the need for that third tranche!
Firstly: a fitness test is a good way of assessing an individuals general health and fitness, along with regular medicals, if you don't have a pass mark whats the point in the test? quite reasonably the pass mark takes into account your age, if it's ok to account for age then why not sex?
If you make the pass level equal regardless of sex then you are not truly assessing the males! either that or you are penalising the females by making their levels comparatively higher than their male counterparts!
I am not really sure what the problem is?
The argument that one is fit enough to do their job isn't a sound one, I have seen some severely overweight airmen and women do their job perfectly adequately, are they a good example for the service, could they cope in a high tempo, high extreme climate on ops?
Might they cost the service money and time and later in life the NHS?
It's not new, nobody has just sprung it on you and the levels for both sexes are childlike so just get on with it! There are plenty worse hoops to jump through! If this is what really bothers people then perhaps they should leave and save the need for that third tranche!
Joined: Apr 2008
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,960
Likes: 1
From: The Whyte House
Nonsense. Doing the job, whatever that may be, is the only factor that matters.
If a 54 year old is expected to do the same job in the same conditions as someone far younger then the test should be the same. That goes whichever their gender.
When I leave I'll be glad to leave all you gym queens behind, your attitude is part of the unimaginative line-toeing that makes H.M. forces such a joyless dirge these days.
If a 54 year old is expected to do the same job in the same conditions as someone far younger then the test should be the same. That goes whichever their gender.
When I leave I'll be glad to leave all you gym queens behind, your attitude is part of the unimaginative line-toeing that makes H.M. forces such a joyless dirge these days.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 1
From: Oxon
There are a few ways of looking at it.
Firstly: a realistic fitness test is a good way of assessing an individuals general health and fitness, along with regular medicals, if you don't have a pass mark whats the point in the test? quite reasonably the pass mark takes into account your age, if it's ok to account for age then why not sex? If you make the pass level equal regardless of sex then you are not truly assessing the males! either that or you are penalising the females by making their levels comparatively higher than their male counterparts!
I am not really sure what the problem is?
The argument that one is fit enough to do their job isn't a sound one, I have seen some severely overweight airmen and women do their job perfectly adequately, are they a good example for the service, could they cope in a high tempo, high extreme climate on ops, if they have passed their AFT what is the problem? Might they cost the service money and time and later in life the NHS? It's not new, nobody has just sprung it on you and the levels for both sexes are childlike so just get on with it! If the levels are childlike care to explain the value? There are plenty worse hoops to jump through! If this is what really bothers people then perhaps they should leave and save the need for that third tranche!
Firstly: a realistic fitness test is a good way of assessing an individuals general health and fitness, along with regular medicals, if you don't have a pass mark whats the point in the test? quite reasonably the pass mark takes into account your age, if it's ok to account for age then why not sex? If you make the pass level equal regardless of sex then you are not truly assessing the males! either that or you are penalising the females by making their levels comparatively higher than their male counterparts!
I am not really sure what the problem is?
The argument that one is fit enough to do their job isn't a sound one, I have seen some severely overweight airmen and women do their job perfectly adequately, are they a good example for the service, could they cope in a high tempo, high extreme climate on ops, if they have passed their AFT what is the problem? Might they cost the service money and time and later in life the NHS? It's not new, nobody has just sprung it on you and the levels for both sexes are childlike so just get on with it! If the levels are childlike care to explain the value? There are plenty worse hoops to jump through! If this is what really bothers people then perhaps they should leave and save the need for that third tranche!
You fall into the classic trap, like so many others when you assume that anyone who questions the AFT has a bad attitude towards fitness, grow your mind a bit young man and try and see the bigger picture.
The AFT is nowt but a tick chase and proves absolutely jack when it comes down to it, which you happily confirm with your recognition of the "childlike" levels
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: The real world
Doing the job is fine but how do you decide if somebody is fit to do it?
One persons job in the same trade can be vastly different to the next persons!
The crux is it's part of the job and has been for a very long time, not liking it or it's testing methods does not matter. I am no "gym queen" but simply recognise the need for a healthy body to aid me in my daily life. The RAF wants you to do likewise and employs fair and world wide recognised methods of testing.
Personally I would introduce mandatory pt three times a week to ensure my workforce maintained it's health, that really would help save the need for tranche three!
You would lose some very capable people but you would keep just as many fit capable ones instead.
Am off for a run, enjoy your surfin.
One persons job in the same trade can be vastly different to the next persons!
The crux is it's part of the job and has been for a very long time, not liking it or it's testing methods does not matter. I am no "gym queen" but simply recognise the need for a healthy body to aid me in my daily life. The RAF wants you to do likewise and employs fair and world wide recognised methods of testing.
Personally I would introduce mandatory pt three times a week to ensure my workforce maintained it's health, that really would help save the need for tranche three!
You would lose some very capable people but you would keep just as many fit capable ones instead.
Am off for a run, enjoy your surfin.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 1
From: Oxon
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Doing the job is fine but how do you decide if somebody is fit to do it?
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,049
Likes: 535
From: Wherever it is this month
Paraphrased quote from CinC Air Command a few months ago in RAF News...
...which I thought was particularly ironic, since the death of his predecessor during a triathlon was an integral part of his elevation to 4* 
..."sport is an integral part of a modern RAF career"...
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: UK
I've always thought that changing required pass levels dependent on age/sex was bollocks. I think that each job/specialisation should have a fitness requirement, and that should be applied to all who serve in that role. Surely this is the only way to ensure that personnel are fit enough to perform the role to which they are assigned?
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 14
From: Somewhere Sunny
AFT or no AFT, there is the matter of personal pride. Fat, unfit people in uniform are an embarrassment to their colleagues. Whilst I was job searching, a number of recruiters stressed how important first impressions are - good suit, shirt and tie good haircut, looking trim (and I roll out at 215 lbs), a trip to the sun-bed , nasal hairs trimmed, etc. Some of you might scoff this advice, but if you are going for a high profile/ high paying appointment, image matters as much as your CV., especially at the interview stage.
It might be me, but if I've been doing a bit of exercise, able to see my toes again and my cheekbones return, I feel a lot more positive, sleep better and have more energy both for work and my family. Now that can't be bad?
It might be me, but if I've been doing a bit of exercise, able to see my toes again and my cheekbones return, I feel a lot more positive, sleep better and have more energy both for work and my family. Now that can't be bad?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 0
Likes: 3
From: uk
Fear not. Rest in peace knowing that savings from chopping all the functionality and morale from the Armed Forces are being used to give Jonny foreigner free drugs in the supposed name of preventing HIV spreading amongst the indigenous population??!!
Foreigners to be offered free treatment for HIV on the NHS - Telegraph
How about you screen for it for residency and if you have it - you are not allowed in?
No wonder this country is broke....
Foreigners to be offered free treatment for HIV on the NHS - Telegraph
How about you screen for it for residency and if you have it - you are not allowed in?
No wonder this country is broke....
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: UK
Used to run with no pain mainly because I was always 10ft behind a beautiful rear end. No pain. She ran for the Seychelles in the next Olympics. Her training method was to stay ahead of me.
A lot of the people who are against personal fitness, use Jim Fixxit dying due to too much exercise as an excuse for not training. This is true, he did die. However no male member in his family had ever made it past 46 years old. He was advised to relax his training schedule but refused.
i can understand the problem with females at a greatly younger age having performance standards that older men cannot possibly achieve. I could never understand why the Foreign Office lady, on secondment to Jordan, could give me a 4km start and run me down in the last km in a 10km run. Mind you, she could out run all the jock strappers, fit Germans, Austrians, Swedes, even the occasional Brit, we were all grist to her mill. Made this Kiwi feel that he was not being discriminated against.
A lot of the people who are against personal fitness, use Jim Fixxit dying due to too much exercise as an excuse for not training. This is true, he did die. However no male member in his family had ever made it past 46 years old. He was advised to relax his training schedule but refused.
i can understand the problem with females at a greatly younger age having performance standards that older men cannot possibly achieve. I could never understand why the Foreign Office lady, on secondment to Jordan, could give me a 4km start and run me down in the last km in a 10km run. Mind you, she could out run all the jock strappers, fit Germans, Austrians, Swedes, even the occasional Brit, we were all grist to her mill. Made this Kiwi feel that he was not being discriminated against.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 587
Likes: 38
From: Their Target for Tonight
Having watched the BBC programme on exercise last night, I'm all in favour of their High Intensity method: 3 x 20 secs of full chat, 3 times a week.
3 mins of exercise per week? I might be able to manage that!
3 mins of exercise per week? I might be able to manage that!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 10
From: Darling - where are we?
Having watched the BBC programme on exercise last night, I'm all in favour of their High Intensity method: 3 x 20 secs of full chat, 3 times a week.
3 mins of exercise per week? I might be able to manage that
3 mins of exercise per week? I might be able to manage that
Where have you hidden the webcam?