Apache clips power lines
Um, please excuse the interjection of a mere FW pilot, and an ex-one at that, but is not the Apache required to go to war anywhere in the world, and are not power lines everywhere, well almost everywhere?
Even if the a/c computing power were raised by orders of magnitude I doubt if it could contain data for every power line in the world, even were that available. Hence surely the point of generic systems for dealing with the problem, ie wire cutters (fitted) and laser or IR detectors (not fitted). I really can't see much advantage to using a system that protects you only on track within the UK but scarcely anywhere else (as I assume you can get a European update, for example).
It seems to me that the kind of device that was available 20 years ago according to tuc, is a far more appropriate answer to this hazard. Needless to say of course we don't have it. Another triumph for MOD procurement. No wonder the MAA is worried. I would be too in their shoes!
Even if the a/c computing power were raised by orders of magnitude I doubt if it could contain data for every power line in the world, even were that available. Hence surely the point of generic systems for dealing with the problem, ie wire cutters (fitted) and laser or IR detectors (not fitted). I really can't see much advantage to using a system that protects you only on track within the UK but scarcely anywhere else (as I assume you can get a European update, for example).
It seems to me that the kind of device that was available 20 years ago according to tuc, is a far more appropriate answer to this hazard. Needless to say of course we don't have it. Another triumph for MOD procurement. No wonder the MAA is worried. I would be too in their shoes!
I won't comment of the Operational Requirement or what technology the solution should embrace, but to be fair to "procurers" I don't think this 1980s requirement got past OR in London. There are numerous examples of OR being embarrassed by dreaming up the best spec they can think of, only to discover it is already in service; or in one recent Nimrod example, declared obsolete and replaced 10 years before! What usually happens is it dies a death to avoid embarrassment. The same happened with the radar required for the planned Bucc replacement in the LD role. It works the other way as well, endorsing requirements that defy the laws of physics. The solution is proper scrutiny.
This general subject was discussed a few years ago when Lord Drayson's Defence Technology Strategy was issued. It, too, included as an aspiration future R&D to mitigate a flight safety hazard, and the authors (MoD scientists) were thoroughly embarrassed when it was pointed out the system had been in service since 1996 - but with only one aircraft fleet as OR had been unsuccessful in their 1999 bid to have it fitted to all aircraft. That "requirement" is notably absent from the MAA report.
This is the kind of disconnect that concerns me.
This general subject was discussed a few years ago when Lord Drayson's Defence Technology Strategy was issued. It, too, included as an aspiration future R&D to mitigate a flight safety hazard, and the authors (MoD scientists) were thoroughly embarrassed when it was pointed out the system had been in service since 1996 - but with only one aircraft fleet as OR had been unsuccessful in their 1999 bid to have it fitted to all aircraft. That "requirement" is notably absent from the MAA report.
This is the kind of disconnect that concerns me.
Point taken, tuc. My bad!
AL1 to Post #41:-
Before the word "MOD" insert the word "the"
After the word "MOD" delete the word "procurement"
AL1 to Post #41:-
Before the word "MOD" insert the word "the"
After the word "MOD" delete the word "procurement"
Chug don't forget that GW1 was the perfect sales platform for Apache capability and the AAC saw only the goodies on offer (of which there were many) and probably assumed the other issues could be made to go away once it was in service in UK.
Operating on a nice big, flat desert with essentially no enemy threat and clearly defined lines of battle played to all the Apache's strengths - close quarters fighting against other similarly armed forces (ie not Afghanistan) where identifying the enemy is crucial shows the limits of the IR system and the need for an NVG feed to the pilot with all the digital flight and weapons symbology overlaid.
That, coupled with the MMW radar and decent mapping would make it a go- anywhere helicopter but the lack of computing power is very limiting unless you have a simple route in and out - going off-piste on the battlefield with no accurate mapping is dangerous.
Someone thinks this is an acceptable way of doing business in peacetime UK which is why there are many anecdotal horror stories of masts flashing past the cockpit when low level at night.
So far, the SARF is the only force to raise it's OPV to 300 ft because of the plethora of unmarked and unlit masts in UK - many to do with wind farms and their anemometer masts.
ALARP anyone?
Operating on a nice big, flat desert with essentially no enemy threat and clearly defined lines of battle played to all the Apache's strengths - close quarters fighting against other similarly armed forces (ie not Afghanistan) where identifying the enemy is crucial shows the limits of the IR system and the need for an NVG feed to the pilot with all the digital flight and weapons symbology overlaid.
That, coupled with the MMW radar and decent mapping would make it a go- anywhere helicopter but the lack of computing power is very limiting unless you have a simple route in and out - going off-piste on the battlefield with no accurate mapping is dangerous.
Someone thinks this is an acceptable way of doing business in peacetime UK which is why there are many anecdotal horror stories of masts flashing past the cockpit when low level at night.
So far, the SARF is the only force to raise it's OPV to 300 ft because of the plethora of unmarked and unlit masts in UK - many to do with wind farms and their anemometer masts.
ALARP anyone?
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Indeed crab, and by the same token the words "Fit for Purpose?" spring to mind! The sort of question that should keep an independent airworthiness authority awake at night. Oh, wait, we haven't got one, have we?
ALARP anyone?
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Crab, I take your points and given your username I think you probably have a reasonable awareness of the platform. I do, however, think you might be underselling the AH somewhat. It may well be they only airframe in our inventory that it truly world class. Yes, its not quite perfect but what is??!!
Surely, by definition, facing an equally well equipped Army, Navy or Airforce is going to be more of a struggle than the turkey shoots we have recently been engaged in!
Surely, by definition, facing an equally well equipped Army, Navy or Airforce is going to be more of a struggle than the turkey shoots we have recently been engaged in!
