Hawks Vs Typhoon
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A kill's a kill.
Shouldn't our Typhoon mates be able to mnvr to a wez and kill a HOBS capable, modern IR missile equipped bandit as opposed to a boresight only capable, legacy IR missile equipped one?
I suspect that they do indeed train to it and are proficient at it.
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Whilst you are not wrong, the use of Hawk as a training aid is still valid as it teaches a 'honour both - kill one' discipline and also the critical skill of identifying when the bandit(s) is/are about to achieve sensor lock of some description. This will change with the threat but the principle remains the same.
As regards proficiency I reckon that if (for whatever reason*) you end up in the WVR fight with a fighter with a helmet cued weapon it would be a fairly tricky day at the office Typhoon or not.
*= stacks of scenarios that would lead to it and stacks of reasons as to why they wouldn't.
As regards proficiency I reckon that if (for whatever reason*) you end up in the WVR fight with a fighter with a helmet cued weapon it would be a fairly tricky day at the office Typhoon or not.
*= stacks of scenarios that would lead to it and stacks of reasons as to why they wouldn't.
That's completely correct. There are, as you say, numerous scenarios, but if the low-tech pair do their job properly (depending on the set-up, obviously), the hi-tech/HOBS jet should be able to kill one whilst the other kills him. They need to be quick and well coordinated, though, because the Typhoon can out-rate them and quickly use its HOBS capability. It's a bit academic really because one has to ask, how did they get there in the first place and why is the Typhoon alone? It's still a good academic excercise for both parties.
But it's all in the set-up or it's, "Fight's on. Fox Two, Fox Two, kill, kill. Stop, stop, stop."
Nice article on ASRAAM there. The "over-the-shoulder" shot isn't quite as straight forward as they suggest. In that diagram the other ac should have had a shot in the air ages ago - if nothing else, to make the DAS start doing its job.
But it's all in the set-up or it's, "Fight's on. Fox Two, Fox Two, kill, kill. Stop, stop, stop."
Nice article on ASRAAM there. The "over-the-shoulder" shot isn't quite as straight forward as they suggest. In that diagram the other ac should have had a shot in the air ages ago - if nothing else, to make the DAS start doing its job.
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As regards proficiency I reckon that if (for whatever reason*) you end up in the WVR fight with a fighter with a helmet cued weapon it would be a fairly tricky day at the office Typhoon or not.
It's a bit academic really because one has to ask, how did they get there in the first place and why is the Typhoon alone?
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I think we all agree. It would be nice to think that all intercepts were started at the datum and a pleasant trundle down the timeline later the baddies were in bits/ floating toward the earth and the Typhoon chaps were on their way home for tea, medals and to find out why 3 - 6 went u/s on taxy and missed the fun.
Even in this day and age there will be leakers, either from low CAPs or from strip alert launching after OCA have swept past. It might be that the guys are actually egressing and in 'closing the door' you get mixed up with no Fox 3 left.
As Courtney says, a great exercise in any case. I assume the Typhoon was down low iot perfect the KRET pop?
Even in this day and age there will be leakers, either from low CAPs or from strip alert launching after OCA have swept past. It might be that the guys are actually egressing and in 'closing the door' you get mixed up with no Fox 3 left.
As Courtney says, a great exercise in any case. I assume the Typhoon was down low iot perfect the KRET pop?
the Typhoon needs to stop picking on the little kids in the playground and find something better to play fight with.
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Ouch!
Mind you, give them proper helmet to go with their ASRAAM and it probably wouldn't matter quite so much how 'fat' they were. Bloody good at blowing people up and breaking their stuff though, even without a HMCS.
Mind you, give them proper helmet to go with their ASRAAM and it probably wouldn't matter quite so much how 'fat' they were. Bloody good at blowing people up and breaking their stuff though, even without a HMCS.
But it's the one you don't see who gets you!
About a million years ago self+nav were out over the North Sea on some ADEX or other in the mighty F-4. A brief radar sweep and the nav thought he saw something low and fast. We were anticipating some Danish F-16s, so rather than race in for the usual 150 ARA only to get waxed if he spotted us, we nipped down to low level before creeping round in a hugely wide stern attack... Sure enough, an RDAF F-16 on his own belting in towards the coast. Tempting as it was to have at him immediately, we went deep into his six, then slowly crept forward to formate up on his left wing. After about 30 sec he obviously had one of those 'feelings in the water' as he looked round and saw us waving politely - he knew he'd been had!
One of the newest jets around at the time, yet still defeated by low cunning and treachery! 'twill oft be thus.
About a million years ago self+nav were out over the North Sea on some ADEX or other in the mighty F-4. A brief radar sweep and the nav thought he saw something low and fast. We were anticipating some Danish F-16s, so rather than race in for the usual 150 ARA only to get waxed if he spotted us, we nipped down to low level before creeping round in a hugely wide stern attack... Sure enough, an RDAF F-16 on his own belting in towards the coast. Tempting as it was to have at him immediately, we went deep into his six, then slowly crept forward to formate up on his left wing. After about 30 sec he obviously had one of those 'feelings in the water' as he looked round and saw us waving politely - he knew he'd been had!
One of the newest jets around at the time, yet still defeated by low cunning and treachery! 'twill oft be thus.
Last edited by BEagle; 25th Jan 2012 at 16:48.
About 2 years ago I saw a pair of F3s on CAP in the Eden valley. Backwards and forwards they went for 30mins. The only intercept they made was on one of those Irish-Brazilian turboprop thingies - I imagine the poor stude had a lecture on lookout after they overtook him.
Still, made me think it was about 20 years behind the times setting up a CAP and hoping for passing trade!
Still, made me think it was about 20 years behind the times setting up a CAP and hoping for passing trade!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Olympic workup, mentioned on the news this morning. Probably the same with the Hawk v Helo only there the Hawk was probably the hunter.
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PN
Apologies if this a tangential departure (key words trigger memories): I was at an air show in 1971 - Church Fenton - in the days when you could wander all over the field (apart from the active runway/taxiways), when a Nimrod carried out a few lowish passes. Ah, says I out loud, to no one in particular, "the mighty hunter". Spotter festooned with cameras, pin badges, ghillies vest, silly hat and all, looked at me askance and piped up "that's a Nimrod, mate, 'unters are a lot smaller". W(h)ither the classical education...?
Mister B
Apologies if this a tangential departure (key words trigger memories): I was at an air show in 1971 - Church Fenton - in the days when you could wander all over the field (apart from the active runway/taxiways), when a Nimrod carried out a few lowish passes. Ah, says I out loud, to no one in particular, "the mighty hunter". Spotter festooned with cameras, pin badges, ghillies vest, silly hat and all, looked at me askance and piped up "that's a Nimrod, mate, 'unters are a lot smaller". W(h)ither the classical education...?
Mister B
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This wil have been the reason for them being there:
Eventually the Vale of York will be full of other traffic and the fight moves north.
Either that or in preparation for Scottish Independence, the RAF are practising in the potential AOR should it come to that.
Royal Air Force and Royal Navy aircraft are in operation over the skies of Yorkshire as part of a major training exercise to prepare for this year's Olympic Games.
A 3 Squadron Typhoon aircraft from RAF Coningsby takaing part in Exercise Taurus Mountain 1
[Picture: Senior Aircraftman Graham Taylor, Crown Copyright/MOD 2012]
In the latest familiarisation drill, aimed at ensuring the British Armed Forces play an effective supporting role in the police-led security effort, military pilots will practise their skills and drills over a three-day period.
Codenamed Exercise Taurus Mountain 1, and taking place from 24 to 26 January 2012, it will see fast jet and helicopter pilots put through their paces as they practise operating alongside one another. Other military aircraft will also take part in the exercise in supporting roles.
A 3 Squadron Typhoon aircraft from RAF Coningsby takaing part in Exercise Taurus Mountain 1[Picture: Senior Aircraftman Graham Taylor, Crown Copyright/MOD 2012]
In the latest familiarisation drill, aimed at ensuring the British Armed Forces play an effective supporting role in the police-led security effort, military pilots will practise their skills and drills over a three-day period.
Codenamed Exercise Taurus Mountain 1, and taking place from 24 to 26 January 2012, it will see fast jet and helicopter pilots put through their paces as they practise operating alongside one another. Other military aircraft will also take part in the exercise in supporting roles.
Either that or in preparation for Scottish Independence, the RAF are practising in the potential AOR should it come to that.
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So how have we arrived at this conclusion?
The 2 v 1 ivo Hawick is definitely part of a pre-Olympic exercise in Yorkshire?
Not saying it's not a possibility, but it could be a 2 v 1 (which is an every day event) for any number of reasons.
Unless we now only have one Typhoon, and the threat assessment for the Olympics has come up with a single QRA jet vs 2 Fox 2 shooters as the most likely enemy/ terrorist COA.
I'm personally going to bet against it. Happy to be proven incorrect.
The 2 v 1 ivo Hawick is definitely part of a pre-Olympic exercise in Yorkshire?
Not saying it's not a possibility, but it could be a 2 v 1 (which is an every day event) for any number of reasons.
Unless we now only have one Typhoon, and the threat assessment for the Olympics has come up with a single QRA jet vs 2 Fox 2 shooters as the most likely enemy/ terrorist COA.
I'm personally going to bet against it. Happy to be proven incorrect.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
orca, you may be correct as the OP was the 23rd and the exercise quoted started on the 24th. Equally there is no reason to suppose that the OP referred to training prior to the exercise starting.
Training is the practice of procedures. Exercise if the testing and evaluation of the procedures. They may seem similar but the exercise is not designed to train but to evaluate.
Training is the practice of procedures. Exercise if the testing and evaluation of the procedures. They may seem similar but the exercise is not designed to train but to evaluate.
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Completely agree old chap. In the case of QRA versus jet we know exactly what to do, when and how. (i.e. no need to exercise - we do it all the time) If anything the olympics makes it slightly easier as we may have a steer as to what a possible target would be.
In fact the 'business end' of an actual interception is probably the least valuable bit. The valuable bit is the exercising of the decision making process to launch and control fast air.
As regards co-operation with the police, using fast air for NTISR, SH for support or mobility, E-3 for strategic pie eating etc I fully understand the need to exercise.
I have now convinced myself that this has nothing to do with a 2 v 1 over the borders.
In fact the 'business end' of an actual interception is probably the least valuable bit. The valuable bit is the exercising of the decision making process to launch and control fast air.
As regards co-operation with the police, using fast air for NTISR, SH for support or mobility, E-3 for strategic pie eating
etc I fully understand the need to exercise.I have now convinced myself that this has nothing to do with a 2 v 1 over the borders.
