A little evidence of senior officer surplus

[Wensleydale]

I'm waiting for the headline...

"Senior Officer for the High Jump!"

[Whenurhappy]

Teeteringhead & Widger,

I avoided the tube by having a daily adrenalin rush by cycling to work. (4 years - 2 accidents - 1 alcohol related - bollards behind County Hall at midnight - ouch!) Mind you, it kept my fitness levels for those annual Jock-fests in St Vincent's bunker gym.

And I agree with you TTH - a MB tour could be fun, but it was also hard & interesting work. I did tours there as a Sqn Ldr and a Wg Cdr in Jt and sS roles. I felt infinitely better informed than my erstwhile compatriots at High Wycombe. I feel that people who deride MB are typically those who:

a) Don't appreciate London and decry it in absence of any experience (London is the best city on the Planet)

b) Have never served there; and,

b) Shouldn't be allowed to serve there.

[teeteringhead]

Absolutely agree Whenurhgappy - really loved my times there (best fun I've had outside of a cockpit!), but

a. I'm a Londoner originally so felt I'd "come home".
b. I was lodging both times, so could (and sometimes actually did!) walk to work.
c. Had high pressure/high profile jobs - it would probably not have been the right surroundings in which to have been under-employed - but then I didn't know anyone who was!

One star wanders into office on 4th floor 0930-ish:

"Teeters - can you do a "quick and dirty" brief on RAF contribution to OP xxxxxx by midday for me....... [dramatic pause] .... CDS is flying out to theatre with Tony Blair (the then PM) in the morning, and wants to brief him in the 125 en route - I'll walk it round this 6th floor this afternoon ....."

Gives one a bit of a buzz does that.

[Widger]

Ahhh,

Drive by shootings at 1100 on a Friday morning. Can't say I miss them!

[Whenurhappy]

Yes - there was/is a real buzz about the place (I spent 2 1/2 years on the 5th floor and 18 months on the 4th). My Air Cdre was appoplectic when I was invited to brief CAS (Sir Glen) on something - he'd been waiting several weeks to have an audience!

It was great to get a PE or a PQ and answer it - directly, without ahving to waffle.

[pr00ne]

SAMXXV,

2 hours to get to where? Have you heard of Hillingdon? It's about 45 mins to Westminster. You'd have to spend your entire time rattling a few times round the Circle Line to spend 2 hrs on the tube, the entire Central Line doesn't take as long!

I also challenge your assertions about MB. I was only there briefly, and holding, but it always seemed a quite dynamic place to me with some folk putting in really long hours. Now I was on the way out via a contentious resignation when I was there so was not exactly in the mood to view ANY of it in a positive light, but I don't recognise the place you describe, nor your London travel experience. Are you sure it wasn't just YOU that mucked about on a PC for 8hrs, as you readily admit you did? If you were ever there that is...

[teeteringhead]

I am delighted to see support for my post #19 from my gallant and learned friend pr00ne.

[DSAT Man]

'Even if there were a High Holborn tube station (note correct spelling) - which there is not - you would have to be deranged, or have overslept, to disembark there (or even Holborn, which does exist) to get to Main Building.

Moreover, the timetabled time from Uxbridge to Holborn is 54 mins - a sensible choice would be Westminster, taking only 52 mins (change at Baker Street from Metropolitan to Jubilee line) then a couple of minutes walk to the South Door.'

Teeteringhead - I thought we were playing Mornington Crescent there for a moment!

[teeteringhead]

Using of course the optional "MoD Random Non-existent Station" rule!

And - Mornington Crescent is a mere 10 mins from Embankment (for the MoD North Door) on the Northern Line (Charing Cross Branch).

I really really must get out more .......

[Training Risky]

Mornington Crescent

You win, sir!

[Melchett01]

Don't appreciate London and decry it in absence of any experience (London is the best city on the Planet)

I'll go along with that ... even as a fully paid up member of the Flat Cap and Whippet Brigade, hence my constant badgering the Deskie for a posting there. He must be suspicious of my motives as it has never come up yet. Alternatively, he probably (rightly) fears a diplomatic incident.

But in SAMXXV's defence, my own personal experience is that I have never managed to get to any where on time if it involves the Circle Line, so I guess if he was coming in from the Hammersmith extension, then it could well have taken a couple of hours. Either that or he just nodded off in his dotage and got a couple of laps of the Circle Line in before work

[rmac]

@ wheurhappy and teeteringhead

You both sound like just the kind of nice chaps that the Olympic operating committee are looking for to perform some important and high pressure functions.....

[Old-Duffer]

I did four yes FOUR full tours in and around Whitehall and I hated every minute of it. With one exception, the job didn't need to be in London and except when I lived in the mess at Uxbridge, the accommodation at Woolwich was squalid and the daily grind into town depressing.

Friday lunchtime on the 'General Belgrano', as the paddle steamer pub was known post-1982, was some light relief and my mates and I eventually invented The Wine Bar Commandos. The tie of this exclusive body was a a red wine glass and Commando dagger and qualification for membership was to drink a bottle of red wine (each) in a lunch break. This resulted in the essential need to disguise the absence of the newly qualified guy from the boss for the afternoon (he was usually sleeping it off in a 'cubicle' in the next floor's loo). Eventually, it was decided to initiate the boss and he then needed to be hidden from the one star help until going home time.

Old Duffer

[BEagle]

Don't appreciate London and decry it in absence of any experience (London is the best city on the Planet)

I have to go to London several times a year for various meetings. To be honest, it is grimy, noisy, expensive and full of foreigners these days. That's not being 'racist', it's stating a fact - everywhere seems as cosmopolitan as an airport concourse. Where are all the Londoners? After a day in town, rattling back to the Cotswolds in an overcrowded First Great Western cattle truck is but a small price to pay.

The tube system is reasonably efficient and quick, but overcrowded, very noisy and uncomfortable for all bar a short trip. It was bad enough when I was a London University student 40 years ago and it's even worse nowadays - but at least smoking is now banned.

As for MoD Main Building, I used to refer to it as the Specialist Aircrew Recruiting Centre. Visit the place on duty and you'd vow never to get promoted to have to spend 3 years squeezed into a cramped cubicle polishing the office chair seat at the mercy of wandering senior officers wanting answers (which they should already know) by yesterday.

But it takes all sorts - and some people seem to like it. Although it seems that it's been tarted up considerably these days with all those expensive chairs, widescreen TVs and oil paintings. Last time I was there, the working conditions seemed better than they were in the 1980s, so at least that's an improvement for the inmates.

"Champagne Charlies for lunch, OK yah?"

[teeteringhead]

qualification for membership was to drink a bottle of red wine (each) in a lunch break.

You lightweight O-D

One (admittedly vaguely) remembers a good lunch at Gordon's Wine Bar in Villiers Street which saw 7 bottles of rough Chilean Merlot go down the "red brae".....

....... but then there were two of us - or possibly three .......

[Whenurhappy]

Old Duffer & Beags,

The requirement for singlies and married unaccompanied personnel to live in messes went some time ago (but I agree Woolwich is a dump). In my two tours I benefitted from very comfortable waterfront apartments (big enough for the family to squeeze into on a regular basis) and made the most of my Mon-Thurs evenings attending (mostly free) lectures, concerts and events all across the city...and the occasional trip to the pub or the Belgrano.

I also got on the distro for the GBP2 tickets for stage shows and musicals. I went to some great shows that I otherwise would not have attended. Moreover I also was hauled in from time to time to make up numbers for drinks and dinner parties amongst the allied defence attache community.

I also learned to cook reasonably well and (as stated earlier) kept fit through cycling, running, gym and rowing - unconstrained as I was by family duties during the week. Where in the world could you go for a lunch time run across the Thames and past the London Eye, Houses of Parliament, St James's Park, Buckingham Palace and back through Horse Guards (well, of course, only in London). Office hours could be long, but in both tours I was treated as a grown-up - do the work, manange your own hours. Accordingly, I was able to be one of the 1300 flood out of MB on a Friday and was back home in time for a late tea with the family. Most of my Geographical Bachelor colleagues (all Gp Capts & SO1s) shared similar experiences.

The MB working environment is pretty comparable with major banks, albeit the recent strigency on offering tea/coffee and God forbid! biscuits to visitors makes us look silly. And the gossip that you can pick up in the Speer influenced FuehrersHalles (sorry, Pillared Hall), as well as the opportunity of running in to long-lost colleagues. Gone are the days of mankey kettles and stained mugs perched precariously on a bedside table next to your desk. (instead they are hidden away in the break-out areas!)

I was also fortunate to have 2 intrinsically interesting jobs which also involved overseas travel and liasion across Whitehall, so I'm sure that this influenced my experience there.

There were down sides as well. Domestic issues had to be resolved almost solely by my wife in my absence and until my last tour, my children never knew me at home during the week - consequently I missed out on a lot of school things - parents evenings etc. Moreover, when a theft of government material occured from my desk space, I was treated as a Pariah and escorted from the building and suspended pending a specialist police investigation. Not a nice expereince and eventually I was (partly) exonerated when a cleaner was arrested. Luckily it was at the end of my tour and I moved back overseas.

Back to the OP: is there spare capacity in MB? Not now.


WP

[Widger]

Mixed feelings about working in MB. The lifestyle of living in London, working hard but playing hard was great but does wear off after a while, although the working environment inside is much better now it is open plan (nowhere to hide though!). Comment has already been made about home life but to be honest, I had 10 years of weekending it in various jobs so it made no difference. At least in MB I had a pad that could be used for the family at weekends/school holidays. All those benefits will end now however, with the squeeze on allowances and in a year or two's time, there will be no flats for Married personnel, no travel costs and no food allowance. Why would any married serviceman want to work in MB any more? A very senior Officer was recently quoted as saying 'it does not matter about the loss of allowances, this is a promotion job' (Chiseller!)

The main problem with the MoD, as detailed in Bernard Gray's excellent report and the recent Defence Reform programme, is that unless you have at least 2 stars on your shoulder, you cannot add value, regardless of your rank, experience, competence or commitment and even then it is debateable whether they can control matters. There are too many layers of bureaucracy, too many people with too many fingers in too many pies with no-one taking responsibility. TLCM is flawed and does not work. Hours of staffwork undertaken to write briefs etc, with the product never getting to the right person and as BEagle mentioned, they should know anyway! Lots of very good Officers and Civil Servants, going to waste because they cannot make a difference, despite their best efforts.

Another quote. 'This building is like a swimming pool, at one end are people trying to empty the pool of water and at the other end are people desperately trying to fill it up because the water level is dropping'.

Bernard Gray details quite well, some of the problems. Hundreds of people employed in shuffling money around from year to year 'managing capability'. Hundreds of man/women hours wasted. The tension between MB and PJHQ (who is actually in command). The existence of the single service staffs in the building who are as big a barrier to progress as any, because they bring their own single service agendas to every meeting or debate. The existence of DE&S at the other end of the M4, the front line commands, too many committees, I could go on.

On a positive note however, when the proverbial does hit the fan, the MOD can be excellent and the UOR work is a good example of that. Unfortunately, good deeds come to nothing when faced with the supertanker, with no-one at the helm, that is the MoD, taking years to steer around the hazards and very difficult to stop.

[Whenurhappy]

Yes - Widger, an excellent post. When I left 2 years ago a MB tour was financially slightly advantageous; not now. Gone are the day of luxury pads in Vauxhall or Canary Wharf - now it's a shared basement bed-sit in Croydon. As a family we enjoyed our weekends and holidays in London, and after my first few months I began to spend mor5e evenings int eh flat - catching up with long-lost reading. I do miss the Friday morning Team Breakfast at the Embankment cafe - best value in London.

I found the staffing process intriguing - firstly at AD (now assistant Head level) then 1 star, then 2 star - each meeting would be attended by the same SO1s, suscessively representing the 1 Star and 2 stars etc. This business process has been progressively reformed but no one likes to be kept out of the loop - and then there will inevitiably be the political interferences from teh Embankment side of the 5th floor.

[Old-Duffer]

TTH,

Re your Post 36 above. In my defence, you will agree that your frame and mine are rather different in overall cubic capacity and hence it's likely that you need more of the red grape to get your BAL to the limit which sets off the bells or makes the bag turn a funny colour!!

Gordon's Wine Bar is also fondly remembered, as is a stroll through the park on a warm summer's day, glancing to left and right at sundry 'blossoms' soaking up the sun. There was also IIRC an old theatre in the alley between The Sherlock Holmes and the Strand where office girls would do a strip (at least they were called office girls and it was during a lunch break) on a Thursday.

There were, as mentioned above, more cultural activities in terms of the theatres and evening lectures and I did - voluntarily - take a job in the area, with a consultancy, after the Queen dispensed with my daily services so it can't really have been that bad.

Good heavens - perhaps I actually enjoyed it after all!

PS I did make one grave error of judgement during my second MOD tour. My desk officer was located in Adastral House in those days and I was 'stepping out' with his female clerk at the time. However, the friendship 'cooled' and I was subsequently handed a really horrid, horrid, horrid tour. Perhaps I should have waited until after the appointments board had sat!!

[Whenurhappy]

Old Duffer

'Stepping out' - what a charming and gracious term, though not an opinion shared by your desk officer, it seems.