How to fly a Herc!
Yes, fair enough, BEags. You know much better than I in the ME world. Perhaps watching it should have been my secret pleasure. I was about to say something about enjoying watching a crew work together, but I know that's the case in the big jets anyway. Maybe I've got late onset multi-engine envy or something. 
For those unwashed amongst the peanut gallery....doing things differently to that in the RAF/UK aviation world is seen by the RAF/UK Pilot Populace as being inferior, unnecessary, or downright wrong. In time with exposure to this phenomenon one learns to look beyond some posts made re an event that calls forth such observations and moves along to enjoy the discussion.
We all know there has never been a non-standardized call out or bit of chatter in any RAF/UK cockpit and of course never a mistake or deviation that was conceivable but then perhaps excellence should just be mimicked and not critqued. God forbid someone was to have a sense of humour and actually enjoy throwing an airplane about the sky a bit and putting on a bit of airshow for folks.
We all know there has never been a non-standardized call out or bit of chatter in any RAF/UK cockpit and of course never a mistake or deviation that was conceivable but then perhaps excellence should just be mimicked and not critqued. God forbid someone was to have a sense of humour and actually enjoy throwing an airplane about the sky a bit and putting on a bit of airshow for folks.
God forbid someone was to have a sense of humour and actually enjoy throwing an airplane about the sky a bit and putting on a bit of airshow for folks.
and this:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Nige321 - It's a dashboard hula girl like this. They probably picked it up at an airshow over in Hawaii.
Not sure if its an approved mod, maybe that is something else folk can pour scorn on?
Not sure if its an approved mod, maybe that is something else folk can pour scorn on?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even by your standards that is uncalled for
Rather than reply in kind....let's just say....QED.
There are tragedies enough to go around without dredging them up.
We all recall the bile spewed when the Blue Angels Lead removed himself after an altitude diversion despite no one being hurt. That was just one of the reasons I made the comment I did as the latest dose of this crap begged a response.
There are tragedies enough to go around without dredging them up.
We all recall the bile spewed when the Blue Angels Lead removed himself after an altitude diversion despite no one being hurt. That was just one of the reasons I made the comment I did as the latest dose of this crap begged a response.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,068
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Suprised you posted those, bearing in mind that we have members of the US military visit here, and friends or family could have been involved it the last one..
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While we're all putting the boot into the RAF, post #4 back on page 1 bears some comment:
Only in the RAF. In many other Air Forces, you need to pass the full fast jet course before being awarded your wings. I'll grant you that those at the top of the course usually get the FJ slots, but the fact remains, not everyone does it the RAF way of moving trainees onto helicopter or multi engine streams before they graduate from initial training.
How to fly a Herc!
Step 1. Get chopped from fast jets and/or rotary.
Step 2. .............
Step 1. Get chopped from fast jets and/or rotary.
Step 2. .............
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andu:
Don't feel bad... The RAF only has one slot for each discipline nowadays... Hardly worth spending the money having them all fly pointy things... Just decide which of the three is going where and train them appropriately... We don't all have money to burn you know, there's second homes in London and £10k bathrooms to be accounted for you know...
Don't feel bad... The RAF only has one slot for each discipline nowadays... Hardly worth spending the money having them all fly pointy things... Just decide which of the three is going where and train them appropriately... We don't all have money to burn you know, there's second homes in London and £10k bathrooms to be accounted for you know...
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the Ether
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beags, whilst not necessarily 'uncalled for' - there are too many tragic display accidents over the years to count - your previous is somewhat misdirected.
Both accidents you show have been studied in depth, even given the C-17 crash's recency, and have been found to be caused by far deeper reasoning and institutional failings than
Both accidents you show have been studied in depth, even given the C-17 crash's recency, and have been found to be caused by far deeper reasoning and institutional failings than
God forbid someone was to have a sense of humour and actually enjoy throwing an airplane about the sky a bit and putting on a bit of airshow for folks.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bristol
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pompous People
As one who has had the pleasure of being in aviation since age 17 and having flown many hours in the venerable C130 with Aussies mostly, the occasional Brit and a number of USAF crew on exchange I have to defend the Americans. They are fallible, just like the rest of us but they are also both professional and friendly, some say casual, in the way they operate an aircraft. Some of the comments on this forum posted by others who would not share my opinion smack of jealousy. The people flying the displays in the Blue Angels C130 and the Paris Airshow C130J would probably have flown together as a crew on numerous occasions and would know & trust each other. Their seemingly "non-standard non textbook" calls are the way they work as a team. Bagging them says more about the "baggers" than it does about the display crews, IMHO. BTW, in civil flying I encountered a few unconventional people from the Mother Country. Thankfully, very few.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 146 Likes
on
28 Posts
Hercules LHS pilot has control (of the aircraft) throughout the take off (unless it's a co-pilots take off of course which is somewhat different) it is just that for the first part he executes that control via the nosewheel steering and the copilot keeps the yoke pushed forwards to ensure the nosewheel does not leave the ground, when the LHS pilot moves his hand from the nosewheel to the yoke he states "my controls" to tell the co-pilot to let go (effectively if not actually), there is NO handover of control of the aircraft, so no response needed.
On a co-pilots take off the "I have /you have" calls ARE made as the co-pilot does not have a steering input initially, and when he states "I have" the LHS pilot will release the nose wheel steering and the co-pilot takes full control (of the aircraft)
On a co-pilots take off the "I have /you have" calls ARE made as the co-pilot does not have a steering input initially, and when he states "I have" the LHS pilot will release the nose wheel steering and the co-pilot takes full control (of the aircraft)
At the risk of being 'Mr Picky', on the RAF C130J the Captain keeps his hand on the nosewheel steering (NWS) until rotate, in case of an abort which can produce a violent swing (whilst Vmcg should allow the pilot to keep straight using just rudder inputs following the failure of an outboard engine in practice the NWS is required). On a Co's take-off he stops controlling using the NWS when the Co says 'I have control' (which the Captain acknowledges in traditional fashion) but keeps his hand there just in case of an abort (or very rarely to keep straight after V1, but that's a whole new can of worms, Co's doing V1 take-offs).
It's been a while since I flew an older model C130 but I believe that we did take our hand off the NWS when the rudder became effective, as described above.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 66
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember back in the early 90's, whilst still a rotary crewman, CRM training being introduced to the SH Force because of, words of the early days CRM facilitators, the appalling every day attitudes and practices at Bzn, the more I read the more I see their point.
...the appalling every day attitudes and practices at Bzn...
I make no apologies for including those videoclips. Yes, there were some significant organisational failures, but in both cases the pilots wilfully exceeded the approved criteria, killing their crews in the process. That's what happens when 'hotdoggers' try going that little bit lower, tighter or steeper than has been sanctioned.
How many of you have actually attended the Flying Supervisors' Course?
Incidentally, Brian Abraham, if the 'V-incident' to which you refer was the crash of VX770 at RAF Syerston in 1958:
the current informed thought is that the aircraft had very probably been severely damaged by unreported, ill-disciplined aerobatics flown by RAF pilots on previous sorties and that the speed / height of the flypast was not particularly significant.
If you meant the 1978 Glennview NAS accident, you may well have a point.
Last edited by BEagle; 9th Jan 2012 at 14:45.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 66
Posts: 1,942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
