"Out of the Blue"
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"Out of the Blue"
I've just finished reading my christmas present to myself - "Out of the Blue" - and was amused by the Harrier tale "Law of the Jungle" which took my mind back a few years.
August 1956 and the Tangmere Wing, Nos 1 & 34 Suadrons, deployed to Akrotiri to fight Nasser commanded by Wg Cdr Pete Simpson, our O.C. Flying Wing. Surprisingly 25 Hunter F5s all arrived successfully on the same day. After a couple of days Pete decided it was time to announce to the locals that we supersonic aces were in residence. Bear in mind that General Grivas and EOKA were causing consideralble trouble on the island. So early one morning a wingding climbed to 40,000ft and with gunsights on Nicosia planted sonic booms to "wake up the pongos" followed by Kyrenia, Famugusta, and Limasol, and a couple of RN ships in harbour. We then landed and high tailed it down to the beach. A while later somebody found Pete there with a request that he report immediately with cap to the GOC (was it Templer?) for causing a Cyprus wide security alert which puzzled the brown jobs as they heard the bangs but found no damage.
Happy days!
August 1956 and the Tangmere Wing, Nos 1 & 34 Suadrons, deployed to Akrotiri to fight Nasser commanded by Wg Cdr Pete Simpson, our O.C. Flying Wing. Surprisingly 25 Hunter F5s all arrived successfully on the same day. After a couple of days Pete decided it was time to announce to the locals that we supersonic aces were in residence. Bear in mind that General Grivas and EOKA were causing consideralble trouble on the island. So early one morning a wingding climbed to 40,000ft and with gunsights on Nicosia planted sonic booms to "wake up the pongos" followed by Kyrenia, Famugusta, and Limasol, and a couple of RN ships in harbour. We then landed and high tailed it down to the beach. A while later somebody found Pete there with a request that he report immediately with cap to the GOC (was it Templer?) for causing a Cyprus wide security alert which puzzled the brown jobs as they heard the bangs but found no damage.
Happy days!
"Out Of The Blue"
Courtney Mil: More information here:
> http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...h4h-rafbf.html
I received my copy yesterday. Got to page 17. It's great so far!
> http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...h4h-rafbf.html
I received my copy yesterday. Got to page 17. It's great so far!
Thanks, Flug. I'll check it out.
Mister B. full power and a shallow dive and it can just go supersonic. The mach limit was, I think, around .94, but it could certainly go faster. Wrongly configured though, it could be difficult or impossible to recover from the trans-sonic/super-sonic dive.
Mister B. full power and a shallow dive and it can just go supersonic. The mach limit was, I think, around .94, but it could certainly go faster. Wrongly configured though, it could be difficult or impossible to recover from the trans-sonic/super-sonic dive.
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Thanks Courtney
I guess I should have worked that out from the "...climbed to 40,000ft and with gunsights on Nicosia...", but, hey ho, that's pilot stuff
Mister B
I guess I should have worked that out from the "...climbed to 40,000ft and with gunsights on Nicosia...", but, hey ho, that's pilot stuff
Mister B
HTB, the Hunter most assuredly was supersonic. Neville Duke's booms were a feature of Farnborough Air Shows of the early 1950s. No doubt the PNs would have stated 'the aircraft is supersonic in a shallow dive', without actually defining 'shallow'....
On 11 Aug 1976 at RAF Brawdy, I saw the highest and lowest speeds I'd ever seen whilst airborne in a Hunter. I'd gone along for the ride during a partial air test of Hunter T7 XL617, to check the aileron rigging which had been snagged by someone earlier, then had been checked and NFF'd by the groundcrew.
The captain was the famous Flt Lt 'Puddy' Catt, a legend in his own time. The spitten image of Gert Frobe, 'Puddy' was a typcial 1950s Hunter chap and a true British gent with a wicked twinkle in his eye...
After we finally started up (he'd forgotten the HP cock), off we went and climbed up to about 40K. He then started muttering and dropping each wing in turn, peering intently at the sea 8 miles below. "Ah - there's the bugger!", he said, then we rolled inverted, pulled to about 30 deg nose down before steepening into a high speed transonic dive. Whilst well supersonic, he waggled the control column from side to side and pronounced the ailerons to be perfect. So we recovered to straight and level flight - then he began to decelerate..... Eventually we were well below 100KIAS in very heavy buffet with dust coming up off the floor and the instruments were almost unreadable. "No", boomed 'Puddy' in that rich voice of his, "nothing wrong with these ailerons!" as he again moved the control column from full deflexion one way to the other....
Recovering back to a normal speed, we set off home and I asked him about his manoeuvres before the supersonic dive. "Fishguard to Rosslare ferry, old boy - bound to be full of bog-trotters. Simply had to boom the buggers!".
Great fun - and I hope the old bugger is still propping up the bar in his favourite local pub in Pembrokeshire!
Courtney, any flap above M0.9 and the aircraft was unrecoverable - otherwise no problemo. We often used 23º flap during doggers to obtain improved nose pointing, so it was indeed possible for someone to forget. As possibly happened in the summer of 1976 when a Hunter disappeared without trace during a solo GH trip over the Irish Sea*. First thing to check in a steep dive was 'are the flaps up?'.
A supersonic run was also part of the Hunter AFTS course and the Gnat-Hunter refresher course pre-TWU.
*We were flying an ACM trip and had called the aircraft as a threat before we continued to our exercise area. When we got back, we'd heard it was missing. Now it was quite hazy in the summer of '76 and this was an early morning solo GH trip for the convex pilot. Unusually, the aircraft had full drop tanks. One of the exercises we used to practise was 'low speed looping' at around 320 KIAS entry speed (except for my chum Ozzie, who misheard and tried it at 230....). The low speed loop involved milking it over the top with the flaps, so it's entirely possible that he became disorientated as the heavy-ish aircraft reached the top of the loop. It was easy to reach M0.9, so he could have well experienced the problem. When asked, some of the rest of his course said that they'd never heard of the M0.9 / flap problem - which was astonishing as it was a bit like saying you didn't know that a Chipmunk would swing on take-off. It was something which had certainly been drilled into my feeble brain!
On 11 Aug 1976 at RAF Brawdy, I saw the highest and lowest speeds I'd ever seen whilst airborne in a Hunter. I'd gone along for the ride during a partial air test of Hunter T7 XL617, to check the aileron rigging which had been snagged by someone earlier, then had been checked and NFF'd by the groundcrew.
The captain was the famous Flt Lt 'Puddy' Catt, a legend in his own time. The spitten image of Gert Frobe, 'Puddy' was a typcial 1950s Hunter chap and a true British gent with a wicked twinkle in his eye...
After we finally started up (he'd forgotten the HP cock), off we went and climbed up to about 40K. He then started muttering and dropping each wing in turn, peering intently at the sea 8 miles below. "Ah - there's the bugger!", he said, then we rolled inverted, pulled to about 30 deg nose down before steepening into a high speed transonic dive. Whilst well supersonic, he waggled the control column from side to side and pronounced the ailerons to be perfect. So we recovered to straight and level flight - then he began to decelerate..... Eventually we were well below 100KIAS in very heavy buffet with dust coming up off the floor and the instruments were almost unreadable. "No", boomed 'Puddy' in that rich voice of his, "nothing wrong with these ailerons!" as he again moved the control column from full deflexion one way to the other....
Recovering back to a normal speed, we set off home and I asked him about his manoeuvres before the supersonic dive. "Fishguard to Rosslare ferry, old boy - bound to be full of bog-trotters. Simply had to boom the buggers!".
Great fun - and I hope the old bugger is still propping up the bar in his favourite local pub in Pembrokeshire!
Courtney, any flap above M0.9 and the aircraft was unrecoverable - otherwise no problemo. We often used 23º flap during doggers to obtain improved nose pointing, so it was indeed possible for someone to forget. As possibly happened in the summer of 1976 when a Hunter disappeared without trace during a solo GH trip over the Irish Sea*. First thing to check in a steep dive was 'are the flaps up?'.
A supersonic run was also part of the Hunter AFTS course and the Gnat-Hunter refresher course pre-TWU.
*We were flying an ACM trip and had called the aircraft as a threat before we continued to our exercise area. When we got back, we'd heard it was missing. Now it was quite hazy in the summer of '76 and this was an early morning solo GH trip for the convex pilot. Unusually, the aircraft had full drop tanks. One of the exercises we used to practise was 'low speed looping' at around 320 KIAS entry speed (except for my chum Ozzie, who misheard and tried it at 230....
). The low speed loop involved milking it over the top with the flaps, so it's entirely possible that he became disorientated as the heavy-ish aircraft reached the top of the loop. It was easy to reach M0.9, so he could have well experienced the problem. When asked, some of the rest of his course said that they'd never heard of the M0.9 / flap problem - which was astonishing as it was a bit like saying you didn't know that a Chipmunk would swing on take-off. It was something which had certainly been drilled into my feeble brain!
Last edited by BEagle; 6th Jan 2012 at 12:31.
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Courtney and Beags
Thank you for lifting the veil of ignorance from my eyes - strange how you can carry a misconception for so many years; you'll be telling me next that the Vulcan can do barel rolls...
I only met Puddy Catt once, when he brought a Meatbox to Chivenor families day (1981 I think; I was Stn Nav, etc). Larger than life and a splendid fellow with proper aircrew moustaches.
Beags, were you a co-pilot on 35 at Scampton in the mid-70s and a pal of Bob Lindo? If so, I might know you (initials NW?). I was on 27 from early 1975 to 1981.
Thank you for lifting the veil of ignorance from my eyes - strange how you can carry a misconception for so many years; you'll be telling me next that the Vulcan can do barel rolls...
I only met Puddy Catt once, when he brought a Meatbox to Chivenor families day (1981 I think; I was Stn Nav, etc). Larger than life and a splendid fellow with proper aircrew moustaches.
Beags, were you a co-pilot on 35 at Scampton in the mid-70s and a pal of Bob Lindo? If so, I might know you (initials NW?). I was on 27 from early 1975 to 1981.
HTB, guilty as charged!
If you were Stn Nav at Chiv in 1981, perhaps I flew you over to Brawdy and back in XL189 on 13 Jan 1981?
If you want to know what Bob is up to these days, see Camel Valley - Producers of fine still and sparkling English wine in Cornwall .
If you were Stn Nav at Chiv in 1981, perhaps I flew you over to Brawdy and back in XL189 on 13 Jan 1981?
If you want to know what Bob is up to these days, see Camel Valley - Producers of fine still and sparkling English wine in Cornwall .
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Beags
Never been to Brawdy - I arrived later in the year at Chiv, so it might have been my predecessor (who stayed on to become the nav trainer on 63 sqn) - Jock, big moustaches, ex-Bucc, intials PR.
I've stayed in one of Bob's holiday cottages and sampled, in large qauntities all his products. His son Sam is also turning out to be a first class vintner; long may they be successful.
Mister B
Never been to Brawdy - I arrived later in the year at Chiv, so it might have been my predecessor (who stayed on to become the nav trainer on 63 sqn) - Jock, big moustaches, ex-Bucc, intials PR.
I've stayed in one of Bob's holiday cottages and sampled, in large qauntities all his products. His son Sam is also turning out to be a first class vintner; long may they be successful.
Mister B
HTB, sorry - I mis-id'd you. I was actually thinking of the 63 Sqn Nav Trg Off.
I recall an amusing incident regarding your predecessor at Chiv. He'd showed the daily nav warnings at met brief and had pointed at something with his finger on the OHP. The Stn Cdr took a dim view of this and told him to use a pointer next time.
The next day, our hero duly arrives with an impressive dayglo orange cardboard arrow which he'd made for himself. Unfortunately he wasn't that good with a pair of scissors and the end of the arrow was slightly rounded. So when he plonked his arrow on the OHP slide, it looked (not to put too fine a point on it) as though he'd flopped out his willy onto the slide. We fell about, he couldn't understand what we were laughing at - and the Stn Cdr's neck turned scarlet!
Such a shame that wonderful 'Heaven in Devon' is no longer an RAF fast jet base...
I recall an amusing incident regarding your predecessor at Chiv. He'd showed the daily nav warnings at met brief and had pointed at something with his finger on the OHP. The Stn Cdr took a dim view of this and told him to use a pointer next time.
The next day, our hero duly arrives with an impressive dayglo orange cardboard arrow which he'd made for himself. Unfortunately he wasn't that good with a pair of scissors and the end of the arrow was slightly rounded. So when he plonked his arrow on the OHP slide, it looked (not to put too fine a point on it) as though he'd flopped out his willy onto the slide. We fell about, he couldn't understand what we were laughing at - and the Stn Cdr's neck turned scarlet!
Such a shame that wonderful 'Heaven in Devon' is no longer an RAF fast jet base...
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That sounds about right for PR. The staish must have been RA (ex-Harriers et al?), later to rise high in the air rankings, aka "buckethead". He didn't much like me, well any navigator, really.
Yes, happy days, happy station, and a shed load of back seat flying for a ground tour.
Mister B
Yes, happy days, happy station, and a shed load of back seat flying for a ground tour.
Mister B
RA wasn't very fond of many things! Visiting aircrew without hats were a particular hate of his. He would also lurk at his window at ensign-lowering time and woe betide any OO who was late! Which was worth winding him up over.
I'd timed that it took precisely 6 seconds to get out of my car and walk slowly to the saluting spot. So one day, after spotting him glaring out of his office window, I did precisely that - up went my arm and down came the ensign as the clock struck 1600...
One poor sod arrived to find no Ord Sgt one morning, so rushed to phone the guardroom. Meanwhile the Ord Sgt turned up late and raised the ensign - with no OO to salute. Unfortunately RA saw this, so decided that the OO needed more practice and gave him a few more days. Being an honourable chap he didn't let on that he'd been let down by the Ord Sgt though.
Do catch up, Courtney, old horseman. RA didn't care much for either PR or MrB - and it was actually MP who I took to Brawdy, although I did fly with RA several times.
But I gets thy drift and 'tis now time to return to our regular programme schedule.
Out of the Blue does indeed sound a most excellent read!
I'd timed that it took precisely 6 seconds to get out of my car and walk slowly to the saluting spot. So one day, after spotting him glaring out of his office window, I did precisely that - up went my arm and down came the ensign as the clock struck 1600...
One poor sod arrived to find no Ord Sgt one morning, so rushed to phone the guardroom. Meanwhile the Ord Sgt turned up late and raised the ensign - with no OO to salute. Unfortunately RA saw this, so decided that the OO needed more practice and gave him a few more days. Being an honourable chap he didn't let on that he'd been let down by the Ord Sgt though.
Do catch up, Courtney, old horseman. RA didn't care much for either PR or MrB - and it was actually MP who I took to Brawdy, although I did fly with RA several times.
But I gets thy drift and 'tis now time to return to our regular programme schedule.
Out of the Blue does indeed sound a most excellent read!
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At the end of an exercise with the Army in Libya, flying out of El Adem, in December 1961, the CO of the Army participants asked if we could do a flypast to mark the end of a successful exercise. The Boss lead 10 Hunters to 40k feet overhead the Army temporary camp, and we peeled off one after the other to aim our 10 sonic booms at the camp.
On arrival back at El Adem, there was a signal awaiting the Boss. The Army very much appreciated the flypast, and they would have taken the tents down anyway even if we hadn't flattened them.
On arrival back at El Adem, there was a signal awaiting the Boss. The Army very much appreciated the flypast, and they would have taken the tents down anyway even if we hadn't flattened them.
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said that they'd never heard of the M0.9 / flap problem
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And another thing. For all you youngsters thinking Hunters weren't fast, one 2TAF squadron even had a certificated supersonic tortoise, which must prove something (though I'm not sure what).