Vulcan - bone domes
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Vulcan - bone domes
I remember seeing a photo somewhere of what was purported to be a very early Vulcan crew, with what looked like WW2-era leather flying helmets on.
Am I mistaken? (I suspect so).
When were hard flying helmets introduced into the RAF - and does anyone know on what type?
Am I mistaken? (I suspect so).
When were hard flying helmets introduced into the RAF - and does anyone know on what type?
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The 1950s and into the 60s RAF hard hats were a two piece arrangement, with a soft (blue cloth) inner which contained the headset, (and looked not dissimilar to a WW2 Russian tankies' helmet), and an outer fibreglass(?) shell - which was just that, a shell with nothing else except a visor attached.
I'd be guessing that the photograph you saw might have been a crewman, probably a back seater, wearing only his 'inner'. I don't know whether there was much to be gained for the blokes down the back of V bomber wearing their hard hats most of the time, as they didn't have ejection seats, and if they were going to try (the operative word being 'try') to get out, they'd have lots of time to put the outer shell on over their cloth inners before 'egressing'.
I'd be guessing that the photograph you saw might have been a crewman, probably a back seater, wearing only his 'inner'. I don't know whether there was much to be gained for the blokes down the back of V bomber wearing their hard hats most of the time, as they didn't have ejection seats, and if they were going to try (the operative word being 'try') to get out, they'd have lots of time to put the outer shell on over their cloth inners before 'egressing'.
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Vulcan Bang/Bale outs
Pardon the thread drift but can anyone add to this interesting topic with personal experience of parting company with one's Vulcan for real?
GGR
GGR
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The inner helmet was known as a G-Helmet and was common on all types. On aircraft without pressure breathing it was worn with an H-mask. Pressure breathing masks were originally the M-mask but this could not hold high pressure to the P (large face - bridge of nose to chin) and Q (medium face) were introduced.
It was originally thought that rear crew did not need the sun visor as they didn't look out (economy measure?) but by the early '60s visors all new bone domes were fitted with a visor.
We used to wear the bone dome take-off and landing and discard it as soon as we could. Later there was more acceptance of wearing it while low level flying.
Fubaar has a point which was why there was early reluctance to wearing the bone dome all the time. I think attitudes changed as the bone dome did have its uses in low level turbulence and a planned low level abandonment was not necessarily a slow process.
I was fortunate in never having to abandon an aircraft but we did a test once, Irish Sea, 500 feet 250 kt, all engines throttled to flight idle and a climb commenced. We topped at 1500 feet so there was some useful time in the event of loss of all 4-engines - say an extra 500 feet.
Of the low level crashes though I don't think they were survivable. The Shiraz crash on landing was a good example for wearing a bone dome, although I don't know if it was a factor in the survival of the rear crew.
It was originally thought that rear crew did not need the sun visor as they didn't look out (economy measure?) but by the early '60s visors all new bone domes were fitted with a visor.
We used to wear the bone dome take-off and landing and discard it as soon as we could. Later there was more acceptance of wearing it while low level flying.
Fubaar has a point which was why there was early reluctance to wearing the bone dome all the time. I think attitudes changed as the bone dome did have its uses in low level turbulence and a planned low level abandonment was not necessarily a slow process.
I was fortunate in never having to abandon an aircraft but we did a test once, Irish Sea, 500 feet 250 kt, all engines throttled to flight idle and a climb commenced. We topped at 1500 feet so there was some useful time in the event of loss of all 4-engines - say an extra 500 feet.
Of the low level crashes though I don't think they were survivable. The Shiraz crash on landing was a good example for wearing a bone dome, although I don't know if it was a factor in the survival of the rear crew.
I recall a story that the pilots only wore the inner helmet as this allowed them an extra inch headroom which aided the restricted view when landing.
No doubt an ex Vulcan driver will put me right .
I also believe that the first Britannia crews had to wear the cloth helmets as the powers that be decided they did not require commercial headsets to operate the aircraft but should wear existing military issue earphones and intercom built into the cloth helmet.
No doubt an ex Vulcan driver will put me right .
I also believe that the first Britannia crews had to wear the cloth helmets as the powers that be decided they did not require commercial headsets to operate the aircraft but should wear existing military issue earphones and intercom built into the cloth helmet.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Bingo, correct a la Vulcan. Similarly the Nav Radar "needed" the cloth helemet so he could operate the sun guns.
Later I got a Mk 3 helment but used to carry a G-helmet as well in case I had to work in a confined space. In practice I found I could operate the sextant while wearing the Mk 3 and it was no impediment when moving around the cockpit either.
Later I got a Mk 3 helment but used to carry a G-helmet as well in case I had to work in a confined space. In practice I found I could operate the sextant while wearing the Mk 3 and it was no impediment when moving around the cockpit either.
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I was a Vulcan AEO in the late 70s and I replaced my inner and outer helmets for a one-piece job - a Mk4a I think. The old inner helmet made my head itch and I was far from convinced that if a low level abandonment was called for I would have time to don the outer helmet before exiting the aircraft. The Mk 4a seemed to be a bit heavy at first but I soon got used to it and I definitely preferred it to the two-piece head gear that I had earlier.
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I think one of the reasons for G/Mk 1 combination was that removal of the outer shell gave a little more headroom for the pilots so they did not have to incline neck and head inboard due to the canopy curvature (remember the initial design was for a single pilot positioned centrally and two rear crew).
Mister B
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Hi all ...
I believe the original Mk1 "outer" bone dome was issued without a visor but allowed for the wearing of flying goggles (the two male popper-studs at the rear of the helmet were originally designed to take elasticated webbing to keep the goggles strap in place). The picture below of a Canberra crew from the early 50's shows the Observer wearing the Mk1 "outer" without goggles and the Pilot wearing the electric hat "inner" plus goggles.
I believe the Mk1a "outer" was then introduced with a moulded forehead arrangement on the bone dome that allowed for the fixing of a track and visor as required. The picture below (again from the 50's) shows a Victor Bomb-Aimer with what looks like a Mk1a but with no track/visor arrangement.
The final picture from the Mid 60's shows Nav students in the back of a Dominie resplendent in their Mk1a's plus visors.
I recall that a mod was introduced to file-down the central plastic visor actuator to make it less unicornesk given a spate of cracked perspex canopies on the Chipmunk TMk 10 encountered during aerobatics or turbulence
Sorry if a bit off thread ... but thought it might be of interest !
Best regards and Happy Christmas to everyone...
Coff.
I believe the original Mk1 "outer" bone dome was issued without a visor but allowed for the wearing of flying goggles (the two male popper-studs at the rear of the helmet were originally designed to take elasticated webbing to keep the goggles strap in place). The picture below of a Canberra crew from the early 50's shows the Observer wearing the Mk1 "outer" without goggles and the Pilot wearing the electric hat "inner" plus goggles.
I believe the Mk1a "outer" was then introduced with a moulded forehead arrangement on the bone dome that allowed for the fixing of a track and visor as required. The picture below (again from the 50's) shows a Victor Bomb-Aimer with what looks like a Mk1a but with no track/visor arrangement.
The final picture from the Mid 60's shows Nav students in the back of a Dominie resplendent in their Mk1a's plus visors.
I recall that a mod was introduced to file-down the central plastic visor actuator to make it less unicornesk given a spate of cracked perspex canopies on the Chipmunk TMk 10 encountered during aerobatics or turbulence
Sorry if a bit off thread ... but thought it might be of interest !
Best regards and Happy Christmas to everyone...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 15th Dec 2011 at 13:56.
For all the development history of AEA (Flying Clothing) contact Dr Graham Rood at F.A.S.T (The Farnborough museum) Farnborough Airsciences Trust homepage
The Mk1a protective & G helmet combi was replaced by the 2 & 3 series (in certain aircraft) the Mk 2 had "g" sensitve visors which were a bugger to set up & the Mk 3 took forever to fit. Then came the Mk 4 (Funny old thing)
As an aside - I remember that the Mk4 `could not be used` in the Chipmunk because it had never been formally cleared!(according to MoD PE)
The Mk1a protective & G helmet combi was replaced by the 2 & 3 series (in certain aircraft) the Mk 2 had "g" sensitve visors which were a bugger to set up & the Mk 3 took forever to fit. Then came the Mk 4 (Funny old thing)
As an aside - I remember that the Mk4 `could not be used` in the Chipmunk because it had never been formally cleared!(according to MoD PE)
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Hello oldman
My first job at my first unit RAF Cranwell was modifing Mk 1 helmets to Mk 1a standard fitting the track and visor mechanism which involved drilling 4 holes and securing the track with self-tapping screws coated with a very sticky varnish to help prevent the screws from working loose.
Later helmets had metal nuts moulded into the helmet shell.The Mk 1 helmet did not have an adjustable harness. It came in 14 different sizes and fitting was by trial and error. The helmet being a snug fit over the cloth 'G' helmet if it was too tight the wearer could end with an excruciating headache.
Well thats what aircrew useally told me. Perhaps that was the main reason rear crew members prefered not to wear them after take off.
When tall aircrew flew in Chipmunk aircraft wearing the Mk 1a helmet the visor operating knob could touch the canopy!! there was then a modification to saw 1/2 inch off.
My first job at my first unit RAF Cranwell was modifing Mk 1 helmets to Mk 1a standard fitting the track and visor mechanism which involved drilling 4 holes and securing the track with self-tapping screws coated with a very sticky varnish to help prevent the screws from working loose.
Later helmets had metal nuts moulded into the helmet shell.The Mk 1 helmet did not have an adjustable harness. It came in 14 different sizes and fitting was by trial and error. The helmet being a snug fit over the cloth 'G' helmet if it was too tight the wearer could end with an excruciating headache.
Well thats what aircrew useally told me. Perhaps that was the main reason rear crew members prefered not to wear them after take off.
When tall aircrew flew in Chipmunk aircraft wearing the Mk 1a helmet the visor operating knob could touch the canopy!! there was then a modification to saw 1/2 inch off.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Mk 1 helmet did not have an adjustable harness. It came in 14 different sizes and fitting was by trial and error. The helmet being a snug fit over the cloth 'G' helmet if it was too tight the wearer could end with an excruciating headache.
Well thats what aircrew useally told me.
Well thats what aircrew useally told me.
.It was not unknown for the new recruit to wear the helmet in bed to break it in
In 1965 there was a trial of a new lightweight and ventilated helmet to try and overcome V-force resistance. It was like a pudding basin or the old style motorbike helmets. It was painted white, had ventilation holes and IIRC a leather edging for the chin strap. It was very popular and assessed as useless.
One AEO selected for the trial refused to hand his back.
Thread Starter
Guys - can I thank you all for contributing.
That's what I love about this site.
As an avid consumer of aviation facts and history - it's fascinating to be able to read all of this - and a privilege to be able to talk with those of you who served and flew the kit for real.
Coffman starter - thanks for those photos - it was indeed the inner cloth helmet that I mistook for a leather one.
I've often thought there'd be a fantastic feature film in the story of the V-Force.
Having visited Hendon, stood under the bomb bay of the Vulcan there and watched the old footage of the streaming take off of multiple Vulcans, it's very sobering to think what it must have like...
That's what I love about this site.
As an avid consumer of aviation facts and history - it's fascinating to be able to read all of this - and a privilege to be able to talk with those of you who served and flew the kit for real.
Coffman starter - thanks for those photos - it was indeed the inner cloth helmet that I mistook for a leather one.
I've often thought there'd be a fantastic feature film in the story of the V-Force.
Having visited Hendon, stood under the bomb bay of the Vulcan there and watched the old footage of the streaming take off of multiple Vulcans, it's very sobering to think what it must have like...
As well as for take-off/landing, bone domes were required down the back of Victor tankers during refuelling. I never had an "all in one" helmet, and was quite happy with my 2-part Mk 1a, as several hours in a cloth helmet were a lot more comfortable than in a Mk 2 or 3.
tartare - have a look at the V-Force Reunion website - you should find a lot to interest you there and some very good pictures on the gallery.
tartare - have a look at the V-Force Reunion website - you should find a lot to interest you there and some very good pictures on the gallery.
Further to the G helmet `comfort` issue, I recall an OC of the RAFs premier recce squadron saying (Jags in Germany) that `in case of war` he would revert to the G helmet from his Mk 4 as it would be easier to check 6. 
I don`t think IAM would have approved. 
As for the Mk 4 not in a Chippy - Well, I guess PE were keen to fire a 9lb Chicken at it, but never got tasked......Ho Hum.
I don`t think IAM would have approved. As for the Mk 4 not in a Chippy - Well, I guess PE were keen to fire a 9lb Chicken at it, but never got tasked......Ho Hum.
Hi Ancient - I recall all those mods - the threads were suposedly locked in with a stinking gasket sealant - The days before locktite
As a young airman on V bombers I remember the joy of before flights and laying out 10 Vulcan crews worth of kit (60 plus helmets, Life jackets etc) at 2 in the morning, making sure the SARAH (remember them?) frequencies did not conflict etc etc... all to be ready for the next days flyng starting at 6.
Also, being responsible for holding every aircrew members locker keys so we could put their flying clothing away after flight servicing, only to discover that the canned soup hoard within many of them was so large you couldn`t get the effin kit in!...
Oh, what fun we had?
As a young airman on V bombers I remember the joy of before flights and laying out 10 Vulcan crews worth of kit (60 plus helmets, Life jackets etc) at 2 in the morning, making sure the SARAH (remember them?) frequencies did not conflict etc etc... all to be ready for the next days flyng starting at 6.
Also, being responsible for holding every aircrew members locker keys so we could put their flying clothing away after flight servicing, only to discover that the canned soup hoard within many of them was so large you couldn`t get the effin kit in!...
Oh, what fun we had?
Last edited by oldmansquipper; 15th Dec 2011 at 22:40. Reason: missing word