Tornado GR1 question?
Joined: May 2006
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From: front seat, facing forwards
Originally Posted by Gaz ED
I remain confused. Was there a 3 tank/TIALD fit?
Joined: May 2006
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From: front seat, facing forwards
There were some interesting fits around then. I have a photo somewhere (I'll have to find it and scan it) of an early ALARM fit. No adapters available so there's 2 on the UWG stations and the 2 small jugs UFUS. We've all heard about the Buccs at 20ft trimming down into the ground effect....only time in a GR I've felt ground effect.
Thread Starter
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From: At the controls...
How low could you really go in a GR1?
And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave.... Some even said you could take your hands off the stick and let it ride on it...
JP later disputed this but it sounds fooooking awesome nontheless.
And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave.... Some even said you could take your hands off the stick and let it ride on it...
JP later disputed this but it sounds fooooking awesome nontheless.
Joined: May 2006
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From: front seat, facing forwards
You could go as low in a GR1 as you could in any aircraft. Indeed, I still hold to this day that it is easier to simply not hit the ground than it is to try to fly to an artificial 100ft that you cannot see in front of you.
From end Aug '90 to when I left for Xmas in Dec '90, we were cleared to 0ft MSD on every trip. Tragically led to the loss of a couple of good young guys but was nonetheless very interesting, especially given the lack of visual cues over much of the desert (and the rad alt was pretty much useless below ~130ft).
From end Aug '90 to when I left for Xmas in Dec '90, we were cleared to 0ft MSD on every trip. Tragically led to the loss of a couple of good young guys but was nonetheless very interesting, especially given the lack of visual cues over much of the desert (and the rad alt was pretty much useless below ~130ft).
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From: Malkin Tower
"And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave."
The same used to be claimed (by some) of the FRADU T22 Camberras.
One of my school pals who went on to be an apprentice with Airworks / Flight Refuelling reckoned the things followed the waves so well they needed barf bags for sea-sickness. The pressure wave supposedly followed the sea waves...
The same used to be claimed (by some) of the FRADU T22 Camberras.
One of my school pals who went on to be an apprentice with Airworks / Flight Refuelling reckoned the things followed the waves so well they needed barf bags for sea-sickness. The pressure wave supposedly followed the sea waves...
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From: North West England
JaJ
The lightbulb went off! I was there from Nov 90 to March 91, albeit as groundcrew. Remember having to do OTR's on JP 233, 3x PW2, 8 bomb, 4 bomb, and 3 ALARM.
After the move to medium level, 3 x PW2 were used against a single HAS - not much left after that! We decided to dig trenches then, in case Iraqi Air Force thought about flying and doing the same to us!
Most startling was seeing a jet come back with the JP 233 front bit (full of AP nasties) still on. Until one of our brave armourers, just booted the thing off and lobbed it in the bondu!
All that and not a lot of booze!
The lightbulb went off! I was there from Nov 90 to March 91, albeit as groundcrew. Remember having to do OTR's on JP 233, 3x PW2, 8 bomb, 4 bomb, and 3 ALARM.
After the move to medium level, 3 x PW2 were used against a single HAS - not much left after that! We decided to dig trenches then, in case Iraqi Air Force thought about flying and doing the same to us!
Most startling was seeing a jet come back with the JP 233 front bit (full of AP nasties) still on. Until one of our brave armourers, just booted the thing off and lobbed it in the bondu!
All that and not a lot of booze!
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From: lincolnshire
Jackaroo747
For that kind of extreme low flying you are not relying on ANY instruments - it’s purely an eyeball exercise. You just fly as low as you can without hitting the ground. Flying in a straight line is pretty straightforward - it’s the turns that cause the problems. You have to climb a little bit every time the bank goes on to avoid digging in the wingtip.
In my experience the HUD just gets in the way of a clear view forward, even in a single-seater. A good Head –Down compass display (Like we had in the Hunter FR10), just below sightline is fine for heading-keeping. I was never very impressed with the Tornado’s double combining-glass HUD, which made forward view even more difficult when it got a bit dusty.
For that kind of extreme low flying you are not relying on ANY instruments - it’s purely an eyeball exercise. You just fly as low as you can without hitting the ground. Flying in a straight line is pretty straightforward - it’s the turns that cause the problems. You have to climb a little bit every time the bank goes on to avoid digging in the wingtip.
In my experience the HUD just gets in the way of a clear view forward, even in a single-seater. A good Head –Down compass display (Like we had in the Hunter FR10), just below sightline is fine for heading-keeping. I was never very impressed with the Tornado’s double combining-glass HUD, which made forward view even more difficult when it got a bit dusty.
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From: Canada
Seen and flown against (F3 rather than GR1) many buccs flying 20 ft-ish oversea on fleet exercises and beat-ups of Gib, etc. They seemed very happy down there. Agree with the points about HUDs getting in the way, especially supersonic and with salty windscreens. Don't have the experience to comment on ground effect in Tornado.
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From: front seat, facing forwards
Aye Pinkfin, that's the one. 
edit: just looked at the rest of the photos in the link. Brought back a few good memories there m8. I presume they're taken by you, in which case.....Hi m8, not seen you in many years! I have the first photo on my wall at home.
edit: just looked at the rest of the photos in the link. Brought back a few good memories there m8. I presume they're taken by you, in which case.....Hi m8, not seen you in many years! I have the first photo on my wall at home.
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From: Not Telling!
Gaz ED
I think I can lay claim to the tanks being jettisoned on night 1, along with 2xJP233 after running through the target (Al Taqaddum) and not getting a release!
Likewise, my driver elected to do about 75º strafe from abt 25,000ft against, possibly Ruwayshid or one of the H airfields, memory growing dim - must dig out the logbook. Strafe done as it was the last opportunity befeore re-roling into TIALD spiking where strafe was prohibited.
Must have dropped more than a dozen u/fus tanks during transits before using TIALD sausage side. BTW, towards the end, I seem to remember the saints SENGO asking for the tanks to be thrown away as the groundcrew had chopped up the transit crates for firewood
Pinkfin - Good piccies - seem to remember pusing the TF envelope by trying to TF over some of those ridges
Smash Bugger - nice vid - a lot taken by my good self!
I seem to remember someone banging the tanks off, also someone having a go at AGG from a long way up.
Likewise, my driver elected to do about 75º strafe from abt 25,000ft against, possibly Ruwayshid or one of the H airfields, memory growing dim - must dig out the logbook. Strafe done as it was the last opportunity befeore re-roling into TIALD spiking where strafe was prohibited.
Must have dropped more than a dozen u/fus tanks during transits before using TIALD sausage side. BTW, towards the end, I seem to remember the saints SENGO asking for the tanks to be thrown away as the groundcrew had chopped up the transit crates for firewood
Pinkfin - Good piccies - seem to remember pusing the TF envelope by trying to TF over some of those ridges
Smash Bugger - nice vid - a lot taken by my good self!
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From: lincoln
I can remember one of our bay support (Klingons) getting a jolly at Deci and when the pilot told him to press "Selective jettison" it was actually set at "Jettison all"
Apparently all the pilot said on the way home was "Oh F**K, Oh F**k".
Jollys stopped immediately and our hero "Cpl Kev Norman"
ended up being called "Napalm Norman" for the rest of his career I imagine
Apparently all the pilot said on the way home was "Oh F**K, Oh F**k".
Jollys stopped immediately and our hero "Cpl Kev Norman"
ended up being called "Napalm Norman" for the rest of his career I imagine
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From: lincoln
Smash B
We were shown some of these videos by one of our 31 Sqn aircrew at Dhahran during one of the briefing sessions
He stopped it where the shadow was closest and compared it with the A/C dimensions, this proved it was quite low
Good memories
We were shown some of these videos by one of our 31 Sqn aircrew at Dhahran during one of the briefing sessions
He stopped it where the shadow was closest and compared it with the A/C dimensions, this proved it was quite low
Good memories
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From: front seat, facing forwards
Here are 2 photos I've just scanned in from my GW1 album of the ALARM fit previosuly mentioned.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I'd embed them if I knew how.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I'd embed them if I knew how.